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24HourForums.com > Supported Forums > MrPaseo's Life Of A Modern-Day Soldier > Would present day soldiers fire on US Patriots? |
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moguitar Guest
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What do you think? Would 50% of soldiers actually obey an order to shoot or imprison American Patriots who rise up against illegal immigration and a USDOJ that is corrupt? How about against a tyrannical government that does not follow the US Constitution on protecting the states from an ongoing massive invasion? I think I am right that very few would obey illegal orders, or questionable orders to shoot or imprison what appears to be true American Patriots. I am not talking about the Jane Fonda, John Kerry anti-war, anti-America types.
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UsedToRide Original500© Member  ^^^That is LOVE!!^^^
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This is a topic that has come up a lot recently in my real world. Since the comment was made in the gun control thread. I have talked to veterans and active service alike, and the opinions vary. Most of the Veterans do not believe that our troops would be on the side of their orders. Most of the active duty (again, this is who I have spoken to myself) say they would follow orders. It also varies on what the issue is. One Veteran believes that if the fight was to take our guns, that it would divide the military and the militia would try to take over. Hence, another Civil War. He also believes that in this case it would be an earth-shaking detriment to the government and the military alike, and would collapse them both. Collapsing the government doesn't sound like a horrible thing to happen to me, since it ignores our Constitution anyway.
 Respect some, trust one, fear none ~~Bullet A hundred criminals may be set free, but one innocent man should not go to prison, for that will make the entire system criminal ~Chief Justice T.L.Venkatraman |
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1jester Pioneer100© Member  Pilgrim Sojourner
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I read some kind of report, supposedly done in a scientific fashion, about 12 years ago or so, and at that time it was reported that 98% of US soldiers would disobey such an order. I don't know where the numbers lie today. There's always the possibility that foreign troops could be used in the US against US citizens, thereby bypassing the need to order US troops to follow such an order. On the other hand, I've been told that the US troop presence near the Branch Davidian compound was viewed by the military as a "supporting role" and thus not in contravention of the Posse Comitatus Act.
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. -Matthew 22:37-39 |
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foxglovepress Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member  NON-PC!!
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This I think would be a tragic situation to put our fellow Americans in: Shoot to kill Americans. I don't really know anyone who is fighting in this war, had several in the family fight in other wars. The Veterans I know, would probably not kill fellow Americans. But the one's I know, are all family members, so I know how they think! But like UTR said, It would probably depend on "why" their being asked to do it. And I sure agree that it wouldn't be such a bad thing if it turned out to be an all out civil war.............................Would be the best thing in my opinion. Hard for our little ones to go through tho...................
Justice for Mark.....Imprison Employers Who Hire ILLEGALS! |
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Britt Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member  Learning Contentment
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I know a Navajo guy training to join the U.S. Border Patrol. He's half Hispano, half Navajo, and he speaks fluent Spanish. Growing up in an extremely liberal union-owned city like Detroit, I always had the perception that white Americans are most sensitive to this issue, but now I see it is becoming an important issue for Americans of all cultural and "racial" backgrounds. My friend the soon-to-be USBP guy is very outspoken and angry. Some of my childhood friends of African American heritage living on the East Coast are also angry. We live in a border state, a place where this issue is big, thus I hear people speak of this issue often. Most people in my particular region of New Mexico feel the problem is being ignored by the government. We have a growing illegal immigrant community from Mexico in my town and resentment is building towards them. Jobs are scarce. Gun ownership is very high here, as well, as is a strong belief in property rights. I often hear people say in passing, "I'd kill to protect my job/house/family if this immigration problem isn't fixed." I'm not kidding, I hear regular people say that. Native Americans, Americans of Spanish heritage - white, Black and brown - I hear people expressing greater anger and frustration. As for the illegal immigrants, they feel threatened but they are also unwilling to return to their country of origin. You guys know me a bit thus you know I'm what my dad affectionately calls a "Love the World Pansy". I think this problem exists because the government of Mexico is corrupt, misappropriates public funds, and is lousy at helping its citizens. Were we to help them build a stronger and more fair government, fewer Mexican people would want to come here. The same with Guatemala and other Central American countries. I don't see how building a wall or beefing up the ranks of the USBP is going to solve the problem. It's like putting a Band-Aid on an open heart valve: It looks like a solution, but the patient dies, anyway. If we really want to solve the problem, we need to help our neighbors. If we do not, the problem will persist. This issue could easily lead to Americans fighting Americans. Soldiers are loyal to their government, usually, thus I would not be surprised if at least 50% did in fact respond to orders to kill those rising against the illegal immigrant tide. Scary stuff. Last edited on 06:07 pm by Britt "All that you have is your soul." --Tracy Chapman |
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foxglovepress Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member NON-PC!!
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Britt wrote:
Hi Britt. Yep your dad is right, you do have a big heart! Were we to help them build a stronger and more fair government, fewer Mexican people would want to come here. The same with Guatemala and other Central American We can't keep helping the entire world tho Britt. Our government already takes more than enough to help it's own citizens, ie: schools, war veterans, senior citizens, disabled ...............and it spends it on war's that are all about money! We can't start taking care of Mexico or any other place until we start cleaning up our own corrupt government! I just don't know enough about the situation in your part of the US to have an opinion about that. I know citizens would fight, not sure about the solders position on this issue. I still agree with UTR, it would depend on what the issue was...........
Justice for Mark.....Imprison Employers Who Hire ILLEGALS! |
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Britt Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member Learning Contentment
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You're right: All our efforts to work with Mexico have failed. The fact is, however, the tide of illegal immigrants will not abate as long as their are nations with more dismal living conditions than ours. Short of building an impenetrable wall down two miles into the earth's crust and straight up to the stratosphere, I do not see any way to stop it. For me, this points to the necessity of an international government. Not to replace national governments but to help arbitrate issues like this between nations and help nations work together towards greater economic justice.
"All that you have is your soul." --Tracy Chapman |
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MrPaseo Original500© Member  Peace Protector
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The short answer is, it depends on alot of things, the title question is to vauge to give an opinion. Ray
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newbiecollector Pioneer100© Member  You can't fake real
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MrPaseo wrote: The short answer is, it depends on alot of things, the title question is to vauge to give an opinion. You got it said Ray 
Enjoy the pleasure of life Wayne |
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24HourNut Administrator  Body pillows rock!
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"Unfortunately," I think most would follow orders but if there was real widespread chaos or a major movement to revolt or something, I think some would abandon the Government and join the civilians. I'd like to think that, anyway.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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MrPaseo Original500© Member Peace Protector
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I will say this, we are NOT an Army of robots, we do not ALWAYS do what we are told. If our orders in anyway will cause harm to any innocent person then it is our obligation to not follow those orders... you all saw the movie, "you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall..." They got in trouble because they followed orders that they should not have. There are so many variables in this question/comment, the original statement is deffinantly anti military and this is why it took so long for me to respond. Fact is, it seems to me that it was mentioned to cause anomosity. NO we will not just pick up our arms and fire upon innocent children as it so implies (Yes it does, for those of you that want to rebuttle that comment). We will follow orders if there is a threat. If there is a civil disturbance without violence then we will just be a presents and will NOT interact, even if some wack Captain barked an order to fire into the crowd. Last edited on 01:54 am by MrPaseo |
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Britt Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member Learning Contentment
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This question reminds me of the Revolutionary Way and the Civil War, conflicts that divided families and pitted brother against brother based on differences of ideology and allegiance.
"All that you have is your soul." --Tracy Chapman |
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moguitar Guest
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moguitar wrote: What do you think? Would 50% of soldiers actually obey an order to shoot or imprison American Patriots who rise up against illegal immigration and a USDOJ that is corrupt?I wrote the original, and I am a decorated disabled veteran of 900 combat unarmed medical rescue missions in RVN. I did NOT want to be basically unarmed, I wanted a gunship. I put myself in the place of the wounded, and that drove me to valor constantly, for their sake. Kent State happened and I was demoralized somewhat, but did my duty. I, personally, would have turned and shot an officer giving orders to shoot American civilians---especially real patriots and other veterans. If ordered to shoot enemy invaders and their abettors, I would instantly obey, with no regrets or remorse. I have not rescinded the Oath I took, and the USA is full of "domestic enemies" who are killing as many Americans per year as the Vietnam and Korean Wars combined, and the invasion is not being stopped in violation of the US Constitution--by none other than your CinC. Just because other CinCs did it since 1986, does not make it legal, moral, or right. I am glad to hear our Armed Forces are made up of people who can think on their feet, and not robots of destruction following any order, regardless of its legal or Constitutional wrongs.
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Britt Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member Learning Contentment
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moguitar wrote: I am glad to hear our Armed Forces are made up of people who can think on their feet, and not robots of destruction following any order, regardless of its legal or Constitutional wrongs.  to that!
"All that you have is your soul." --Tracy Chapman |
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UsedToRide Original500© Member ^^^That is LOVE!!^^^
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moguitar wrote: I am a decorated disabled veteran of 900 combat unarmed medical rescue missions in RVN. Here's what I have to say "Amen" to. Damned impressive, Moguitar. 
Respect some, trust one, fear none ~~Bullet A hundred criminals may be set free, but one innocent man should not go to prison, for that will make the entire system criminal ~Chief Justice T.L.Venkatraman |
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24HourForums.com > Supported Forums > MrPaseo's Life Of A Modern-Day Soldier > Would present day soldiers fire on US Patriots? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
But the problem with the above statement the way I see it is, YOU JUST DESCRIBED OUR GOVERNMENT!| Site Supporters | |||
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