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24HourForums.com > Supported Forums > Robodoon's New World Order Zone > Without God, you have no claim |
| Moderated by: SchooBaka, Robodoon, crhamlett, bg | Page:   1 2 3   |
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation 
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Robodoon wrote: Brian wrote:seekeroftruth wrote:where is the start of a ball? the maker has always been. I don't see where time enters into it. Either everything has to be made, or everything doesn't have to be made. If it's true that not everything has to be made, then a First Cause is possible. If a First Cause is possible, then that First Cause may or may not be God.
 "It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member  Without Jesus we fall short...
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...intel design or whatever it's called. The bottom line is Brian that there is a Creator and science can't run from Him.
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: ...intel design or whatever it's called. The bottom line is Brian that there is a Creator and science can't run from Him. If you want to call the First Cause "God", I see no reason to reject such a thing out of hand, but that depends on how you want to define God. I think there's a lot less evidence for a God that's active now than some people think. A deist conception of God doesn't have that problem, though. In the end, it seems as though we're stuck with two possibilities: 1) The universe has always existed (assuming you define "the universe" as matter and energy overall, and not just as what we see in front of us now). 2) Something created the universe. Theists call that something "God" (or "gods", if you happen to be a polytheist). I see no way to definitively solve the question empirically, with the tools at our disposal. I fall in the camp that says that everything we've investigated and solved so far has had a naturalistic cause, and therefore if "something" created the universe, then that "something" probably has a naturalistic explanation. That doesn't necessarily make it so, but I think that's the side you'd lean on, if you were strictly playing the odds.
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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Brian wrote: JustifiedByFaith wrote:...intel design or whatever it's called. The bottom line is Brian that there is a Creator and science can't run from Him. With God "the first cause" I do not play the odds because with such a Creator/Designer... nothing is impossible. I also respect your well reasoned approach towards the whole issue. I find you to be a refreshing "fense sitter" Brian. 
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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cynicalninja Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member  Smiling Shinobi
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I love the "intelligent design" argument. Basically theists have stolen the theory of evolution, ammino acids, singular cell, multiple cell etc and credited the reasons for these thing as being down to "forces". So anything else that science creates or discovers can also be down to "forces".  
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Robodoon Original500© Member  God Fearing Patriot
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24HourNut wrote: Well since Science itself proves intel design Atheist Scientists who look into creation stop being atheists. My other computer should be up soon, I will give you docs. We are not mud reformed my friend, as humans we are very very special and creation it self hold "DESIGN" not chance.
"...we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the US, ...conspiring with others around the world to build ...-- one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it." David Rockefeller |
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24HourNut Administrator  Body pillows rock!
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Atheist Scientists who look into creation stop being atheists. My other computer should be up soon, I will give you docs. We are not mud reformed my friend, as humans we are very very special and creation it self hold "DESIGN" not chance. I didn't quite understand how "science proves intelligent design" from those comments. 99.9% of the entire world-wide scientific community belives we share common ancestors with primates and evolved from them due to natural means.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: Brian wrote:If you want to call the First Cause "God", I see no reason to reject such a thing out of hand, but that depends on how you want to define God. I think there's a lot less evidence for a God that's active now than some people think. A deist conception of God doesn't have that problem, though. Hi, JBF. Thanks for the compliment, first of all. I don't actually consider myself a fence-sitter, per se. I think everyone who investigates makes a choice, whether they acknowledge the choice or not. The difference I see between myself and a theist or atheist is that my position is subject to change if more evidence comes up. If there ever comes proof of an afterlife (and I'm thinking of a kind of clinical study where someone actually dies until they're good and dead, and then comes back and talks about it), then I'd have to change my tune, because I really do want to go where the evidence leads. The problem with the creationist arguments I've seen (and admittedly, I've seen a lot, but I don't pretend to know that I've seen them allI) is that they take specific unusual circumstances and attribute them to design. The fact that something is extremely unlikely to have happened without divine intervention isn't evidence, much less proof, that it did happen with divine intervention. What I want to see is something that couldn't happen by coincidence. There are miracles that happen in the Bible that couldn't happen by chance at all, because they violate physical laws (parting seas at your command, curing blindness, causing the Earth to stand still in its orbit). If I see something like that in front of me, then sign me up!  But rattling off cosmological constants (as some creationists do) doesn't impress me, any more than it would impress me to find out that a mother who smoked had a child with health problems. To produce an effect, you have to have the appropriate cause, but that doesn't mean that the cause was intentional.
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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G-Com Guardian1000© Member  KISS fan
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"Intelligent Design" was created simply to get religion to sound a little like science so it can be taught in public schools. It's not science. Last edited on 07:38 am by G-Com |
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cynicalninja Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member Smiling Shinobi
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G-Com wrote: "Intelligent Design" was created simply to get religion to sound a little like science so it can be taught in public schools. You do have a point there.
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G-Com Guardian1000© Member KISS fan
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cynicalninja wrote: G-Com wrote:"Intelligent Design" was created simply to get religion to sound a little like science so it can be taught in public schools. Thank you. I think a lot of people would be thrilled if there was a national version of the Butler Act.  If you want to teach Bronze Age mythology, do it in churches/synagogues, private schools, or in your home. Sure, it'll harsh your melon, but that's your business. Keep it out of public schools and keep it out of science. Science and religion are incompatible. I can't accept the bible as anything but fiction (and not very good fiction at that.) Richard Dawkins calls the god of the bible "the most unpleasant character in all fiction." I agree. Here's just a small example of the biblical god's atrocities: Noah's story, in which the people whom god supposedly created got so bad god decided to kill all of them -- except for a few extremely pious people. He commands them to build a boat, and herd animals into it (was it two by two or seven by seven? And how big was this boat?) Then the all-loving god, causes the waters to rise over the course of forty days and forty nights and the bad people drown. After the waters begin to recede, he promises never to do it again. Just how loving is this all-loving god again? He sounds like an abusive father who claims he loves his child, but beats them up anyway.And ladies, may I add this example from Judges 19? It basically shows that the "good book" has absoutlely no regard for you.
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Robodoon Original500© Member God Fearing Patriot
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24HourNut wrote: Atheist Scientists who look into creation stop being atheists. My other computer should be up soon, I will give you docs. We are not mud reformed my friend, as humans we are very very special and creation it self hold "DESIGN" not chance. So are you telling me your a monkey? But to your benifit and mine, what monkey can do what you do? You are special in design above all else here on Earth, you are made in an image for a purpose...and that purpose is to not just throw pooh. Been to the zoo? You are not a monkey 24, you are something very special, just as we all are.
"...we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the US, ...conspiring with others around the world to build ...-- one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it." David Rockefeller |
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Robodoon Original500© Member God Fearing Patriot
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G-Com wrote: "Intelligent Design" was created simply to get religion to sound a little like science so it can be taught in public schools. Religion of the Anti Christ is taught in our schools today as "Science" under "environmentalism" Environmentalism is a Religion that has no base in science. But it is a religion that is taught to kids today as science, which teaches children to hate humans, which attacks mankind and seeks his DEATH!
"...we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the US, ...conspiring with others around the world to build ...-- one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it." David Rockefeller |
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Robodoon Original500© Member God Fearing Patriot
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G-Com wrote: "Intelligent Design" was created simply to get religion to sound a little like science so it can be taught in public schools. Intel Design, is what gets scientists to wonder. Intel design is more science then science... sciences is just "Mans best guess" at Creation. And it changes daily as man finds out more things.
"...we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the US, ...conspiring with others around the world to build ...-- one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it." David Rockefeller |
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Robodoon Original500© Member God Fearing Patriot
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Brian wrote: Robodoon wrote:Brian wrote:seekeroftruth wrote:where is the start of a ball? the maker has always been. Time bud. ;) Stop thinking as a vapor! cuz you and me both is
"...we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the US, ...conspiring with others around the world to build ...-- one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it." David Rockefeller |
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24HourForums.com > Supported Forums > Robodoon's New World Order Zone > Without God, you have no claim | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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