|
||||||
 |
Recent Posts | Search by username | |
Contact Us | |
Login | |
Register |
 |
 |
|||||
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
|
| Moderated by: sirlamre, Amy | Page:   1 2 3 4 5 6 7   |
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Author | Post | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
|
  |
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Aethelred wrote: Amy wrote:Hi, Christianity has the Lord's Prayer revealed by Christ. The Baha'i Faith just has more prayers, that's all. And just as no Christian would EVER say that a private prayer of their own has JUST as much spiritual power as Christ's own Lord's Prayer does --- -- no Baha'i would ever say that the prayers they said were as spiritually powerful as those revealed by Baha'u'llah from God Himself. That would be VERY prideful in both cases, if we were to believe that the words of our own mouths were the same as the words from God. As several people have said, we do NOT limit ourselves to just the revealed prayers, nor is there ANY requirement in the Writings that we do limit ourselves..
 Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. Send down, then, upon me from the clouds of Thy generos |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Aethelred Pioneer100© Member  Ye Olde Dead King
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
sirlamre wrote: Aethelred wrote:Amy wrote:Hi, The difference between The Lord's Prayer and Baha'i prayers is that The Lord's Prayer is given as an example of what a prayer should be like while Baha'i prayers seem to be designed to be said word-for-word. I don't think God cares if we use the right combination of pretty words or not, what He cares about is what is in our heart, the words don't matter. Some of the best, deepest and most meaningful prayer times I have had have been those prayers where I did not say a single word!
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Britt Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member  Learning Contentment
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Note: Bahá'í prayers were revealed for many specific nations and for the world as a whole. This is the prayer specifically revealed to the United States of America by `Abdu'l-Bahá. Bahá'u'lláh knew the USA would play a large role in the future prosperity of the earth, therefor prayers were revealed that we might become "most glorious and praiseworthy among the nations of the world". I pray we grow to live up to His standard.
O Thou kind Lord! This gathering is turning to Thee. These hearts are radiant with Thy love. These minds and spirits are exhilarated by the message of Thy glad-tidings. O God! Let this American democracy become glorious in spiritual degrees even as it has aspired to material degrees, and render this just government victorious. Confirm this revered nation to upraise the standard of the oneness of humanity, to promulgate the Most Great Peace, to become thereby most glorious and praiseworthy among all the nations of the world. O God! This American nation is worthy of Thy favors and is deserving of Thy mercy. Make it precious and near to Thee through Thy bounty and bestowal. - 'Abdu'l-Bahá
"All that you have is your soul." --Tracy Chapman |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Amy Original500© Member  ...going with the flow...
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
In the love I bear to Thee, O my Lord, Potent art Thou to do what Thou willest, and able to ordain what Thou pleasest. (Baha'u'llah, Prayers and Meditations by Baha'u'llah, p. 242)
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Aethelred wrote: The difference between The Lord's Prayer and Baha'i prayers is that The Lord's Prayer is given as an example of what a prayer should be like while Baha'i prayers seem to be designed to be said word-for-word. I don't think God cares if we use the right combination of pretty words or not, what He cares about is what is in our heart, the words don't matter. Some of the best, deepest and most meaningful prayer times I have had have been those prayers where I did not say a single word! So if it's just an "example", then why do thousands of churches say it word-for-word every Sunday in their services? Seems like millions of Christians, with the guidance of centuries of Church policy and procedure ARE in fact 'reciting' that prayer during most services... That being said, you're quite correct about "Some of the best, deepest and most meaningful prayer times I have had have been those prayers where I did not say a single word!" That's very true--- But would you say that those prayers of yours are MORE spiritually powerful in God's eyes than the prayer Christ revealed Himself? I would say that not ONE word or thought or deed I can POSSIBLY perform is in ANY way close to being of the same spiritual power and nearness to God that the Words of Christ and Baha'u'llah are... They are SO much more than I ever will be--- nothing I say or do towards God can EVER compare with something They have done or said. So I (and other Baha'is ) feel that when we recite the words Baha'u'llah told us we could say, IN UTMOST SINCERITY, and with TOTAL focus upon God, then the prayer is that much more effective than our own words would be--- But --- that is true ONLY if we are focussed, in a prayerful mental state, etc--- It's obviously possible to just quickly recite words without thinking about it--- I've heard Christians say the Lords Prayer so fast, and while they were distracted, it's been obvious that they "aren't really there" --- same as I've seen priests just being very routine about the offices.. And ministers too- I've heard sermons that were very "blah blah blah" But none of our distractions changes the fact that the words of God revealed by Him are always FAR FAR more powerful than anything we could ever say...
Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. Send down, then, upon me from the clouds of Thy generos |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Aethelred Pioneer100© Member Ye Olde Dead King
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
But would you say that those prayers of yours are MORE spiritually powerful in God's eyes than the prayer Christ revealed Himself? Christ didn't reveal any prayers, He just gave an example of what a prayer should be like. He never (that I am aware of) prayed and said "you should use these words." Because God didn't reveal any prayers and say "you should pray using these words" I can only assume that is not what God wants. If follows that He must want us to pray in our own words or He would have given us words to use.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Marie5656 Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member  Just hanging out
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
V ery interesting. I investigated Ba'hai many years ago. Found it an interesting faith. Last edited on 10:28 pm by Marie5656 
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Aethelred wrote: But would you say that those prayers of yours are MORE spiritually powerful in God's eyes than the prayer Christ revealed Himself? I agree that the verses read as follows: After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. No one ever said that Christ said "use only these prayers" in this thread. But Christ did not say NOT say the Lord's Prayer as He revealed it either -- which I think is why so many churches (including all seven major denominations I've ever attended, including First Baptist of Asheville) say that prayer each and every Sunday. Can millions upon millions of Christians for centuries be wrong about literally saying that prayer, as opposed to limiting themselves to using it as a 'model' for their own prayers? I don't think Christ intended for people to ONLY use that as a 'model' for their prayers-- else He would have specifically forbidden them to say it. Nor did Baha'u'llah say "use only these prayers", so Baha'is quite often say their own prayers. But you still didn't answer my question -- Are the words of your OWN prayers just as spiritually powerful as the Words of Christ revealed in that prayer? Given the strength of your belief in your OWN prayers in comparison to prayers revealed by Jesus (or God), I suspect there is SOME sort of thought going round in your head on this idea.... Most Baha'is believe that their own prayers said in complete sincerity are worthy prayers--- but not as powerful as Words sent down from God.
Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. Send down, then, upon me from the clouds of Thy generos |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Marie5656 wrote: V ery interesting. I investigated Ba'hai many years ago. Found it an interesting faith. Thank you! We're glad to have you on here ;-)
Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. Send down, then, upon me from the clouds of Thy generos |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Aethelred Pioneer100© Member Ye Olde Dead King
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Can millions upon millions of Christians for centuries be wrong about literally saying that prayer, as opposed to limiting themselves to using it as a 'model' for their own prayers? Yes! But you still didn't answer my question -- I believe my own sincere words are considered more valuable to God than my parroting the words of Jesus would be. That is not to say that I think any prayer I could ever say would be worth 1/1000th of any prayer of Jesus, but those are His words not mine. He never told anyone to say THAT prayer, He said "pray like this." If I was intended to say specific words God would have revealed such words, He didn't. Do you really believe that God is so shallow that He will have more respect for "your" prayer because it was written by Baha'u'llah than He would if you just came to Him in your own humble, but sincere words?
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Amy Original500© Member ...going with the flow...
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Aethelred wrote: I believe my own sincere words are considered more valuable to God than my parroting the words of Jesus would be.... I agree, the words aren't what's most important. It's the connection we establish while praying. The revealed prayers are simply a tool that are given to us as a means to establish that connection if we wish to use them. _________________________ "The most acceptable prayer is the one offered with the utmost spirituality and radiance; its prolongation hath not been and is not beloved by God. The more detached and the purer the prayer, the more acceptable is it in the presence of God." (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 455) "...The wisdom of prayer is this: That it causeth a connection between the servant and the True One, because in that state man with all heart and soul turneth his face towards His Highness the Almighty, seeking His association and desiring His love and compassion. The greatest happiness for a lover is to converse with his beloved, and the greatest gift for a seeker is to become familiar with the object of his longing; that is why with every soul who is attracted to the Kingdom of God, his greatest hope is to find an opportunity to entreat and supplicate before his Beloved, appeal for His mercy and grace and be immersed in the ocean of His utterance, goodness and generosity." (Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 368) 172. Praise be to God, thy heart is engaged in the commemoration of God, thy soul is gladdened by the glad tidings of God and thou art absorbed in prayer. The state of prayer is the best of conditions, for man is then associating with God. Prayer verily bestoweth life, particularly when offered in private and at times, such as midnight, when freed from daily cares. 173. Those souls that, in this day, enter the divine kingdom and attain everlasting life, although materially dwelling on earth, yet in reality soar in the realm of heaven. Their bodies may linger on earth but their spirits travel in the immensity of space. For as thoughts widen and become illumined, they acquire the power of flight and transport man to the kingdom of God. (Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 201)
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Amy Original500© Member ...going with the flow...
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I have wakened in Thy shelter, O my God, - Bahá'u'lláh (Compilations, Baha'i Prayers, p. 116)
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Britt Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member Learning Contentment
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
"All that you have is your soul." --Tracy Chapman |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Britt's a FerToGrapHer! I didn't know that!!! AWESOME photo, Mommy Britt!
Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. Send down, then, upon me from the clouds of Thy generos |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Amy Original500© Member ...going with the flow...
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
O God! O God! This is a broken-winged bird and his flight is very slow O Lord! I am single, alone and lowly. - 'Abdu'l-Bahá (Compilations, Baha'i Prayers, p. 187)
Attachment: (Downloaded times)
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PRAYER FOR AMERICA 
| Site Supporters | |||
|---|---|---|---|
| Posts Of The Day | Mock Forums | WowClassic | |
Themes and most mods done in collaboration with: WowClassic - powerful forum software with the best support service.
We are partners with Forum Owner Services
Powered by - Copyright © 2003-2006 Aycan Gulez
We are partners with Forum Owner Services
Powered by - Copyright © 2003-2006 Aycan Gulez