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| Moderated by: AussiePam | Page: 1 2   |
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cynicalninja Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member  Smiling Shinobi
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What is your view on the current rights, privileges and attitude towards the original aboriginal inhabitants of Australia ?
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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My roommate at the Baha'i World Center was an aboriginal--- nice guy! -- don't think he was 100% aboriginal. He could definitely play a digeridoo --- but MAN that guy could KILL you in the kitchen... He'd mix anything with anything! 
 Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. Send down, then, upon me from the clouds of Thy generos |
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cynicalninja Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member Smiling Shinobi
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So I assume you don't have an opinion about the original aboriginal inhabitants of Australia then Aussiepam ? Thats fair enough, its your forum ! 
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AussiePam Original500© Member  Wild Child
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Sorry Guys, I've been busy. Guess it's as hard to lump all Aboriginal Aussies in the same basket as it is to lump all Aussies of Chinese origin or all Aussies whose families originated in Europe or Asia. I don't really know how to answer this. Aborigines were here before white people, for sure, but they came originally from somewhere else too. And I'm not into beating my breast for conquests that happened way before my time. It's been the way of the world from the year dot. There are some highly visible aboriginal protesters - very often urbanised people with chips on their shoulders and outstretched hands. There are outback people who work on cattle stations and still keep much of their original culture. There are businessmen and doctors and teachers, musicians, olympic athletes, writers. The novel I'm reading right now is written by an aboriginal woman journalist. Sometimes where old meets new there are problems, without doubt. The feast and famine metabolism of tribal aborigines has meant that many of them suffer diabetes with the advent of western type diet and particularly show alcohol intolerance. Many urban aborigines work and live shoulder to shoulder with non aboriginal Aussies, without fuss. But cultural clashes happen too. When my kids were little they swam in the local river with kids of all colours and races. It seems to be the grownups who see the barriers. I hope that answers your question.
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Lady Cop Pioneer100© Member  BAH HUMBUG
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FROM BBC THIS MORNING-- Alcohol banned in Aborigine areas  Alcohol and poverty have blighted Aboriginal communities Australia is to ban alcohol and pornography in Aboriginal areas in the Northern Territory in a bid to curb child sex abuse. All Aboriginal children in the territory will be medically examined. The new proposals follow a report last week which found evidence of abuse in each of the territory's 45 communities. The report blamed high levels of alcohol and poverty for the situation, which Prime Minister John Howard has described as a national emergency. "We're dealing with a group of young Australians for whom the concept of childhood innocence has never been present," John Howard told parliament. "That is a sad and tragic event. Exceptional measures are required to deal with an exceptionally tragic situation." Mr Howard said the federal government would take over the administration of Aboriginal communities for the next five years so that the new laws would be strictly enforced. For the last decade, Aboriginal communities have by and large been allowed to govern themselves. Computer search  Under the new measures, the sale, possession, transportation and consumption of alcohol will be banned in indigenous communities for six months. Hardcore pornography will also be made illegal and all publicly-funded computers will be searched for pornographic images. There will be restrictions on the payment of government welfare benefits so that alcohol cannot be bought with them. Welfare payments would be contingent on children attending school and new rules would dictate how they are spent to ensure that young people are properly fed and clothed. Last week's landmark report identified a wide range of social issues that contribute to child sexual abuse. They included unemployment, poor health and nutrition, overcrowded housing, substance abuse and pornography.
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construct Pioneer100© Member  The Boy Next Door
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I heard about that on the BBC radio broadcast, LC. It seems hard for me to fathom such restrictions given my social libertarian leanings. The BBC said that the alcohol ban wouldn't really affect all that much because alcohol is already banned in many aboriginal communities. The pornography ban is somewhat more strange to me. It almost seems like turning back the clock. I well recall when many adds for 8mm porn films featured a list of (mostly southern) states excluded from the offer to sell. We pretty much decided a long time ago that pornography was a civil liberties issue. I'm a little surprised to see Australia moving in this direction.
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AussiePam Original500© Member Wild Child
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Sigh. This is in the news at the moment. Front page here of course and looks like it's spread everywhere, so I guess I can't sidestep this time.. As an Aussie, I regularly get waylaid and beaten up when overseas and in chatrooms about Australian Aborigines. Often with malice by people with little wish to do anything except stir. Australian Aborigines were the first settlers of my country having themselves migrated here from ?Asia. They were conquered, or rather not even that.. Australia was considered as uninhabited, Terra Nullius, therefore up for grabs. Their land was taken over. They were, mostly, not treated well. Some were wiped out by western disease, some driven into the sea, others marginalised and exploited. By people who are long dead themselves and who are not my forebears anyway. My family came here relatively recently. Since those colonial days, many things have happened. Tales of the 'lost generation' of stolen children are told in novels and films. It is hard now to understand that the original thought behind taking black children away from their families so as to turn them into "white children in two generations" was considered enlightened once. (White children have also been taken away from young single mothers). Aborigines were granted full citizenship of their own country in 1967 when they were given the right to vote, by an overwhelming majority of White Aussies in one of the few Constitutional Changes ever to go through in this country. (Women got the vote in 1902). Attitudes change. Aborigines have been seen as naked savages, then as humans of a lesser kind, as proud possessors of a civilisation far superior to that of anyone else, as lazy drunken layabouts on welfare, as disadvantaged fellow citizens, as fellow citizens who can do no wrong and receive all sorts of special treatment not available to other Australians - and everything in between. It's not helped by the fact that Aborigines are also individuals who can't be lumped into any one basket. Those in remote settlements and those who are urbanised are mutually unrecognisable. Attitudes have changed to how we all view other races. You just have to look at a New York bestseller "Mutant Message Down Under" to get a picture of how realities can be distorted into a romantic, feelgood blur. http://www.aussieinamerica.com/expatriate/mutant.htm On the "noble savage" side you still hear tales of how the Aborigines cared for their environment the way nobody else does, by helping bush renewal by lighting bushfires. This was done to make their hunting easier, and because of the relatively small scale of such activities, they got away with it. Up until relatively recently there was a feeling that one ought to be equally "culturally sensitive" to all beliefs. If one group traditionally mutilated their young females, then we should respect their right to do so, even if it was against Australian law More tricky with Aborigines of course, they were here before our current law. So a wide amount of latitude has been given to tribal arrangements. I remember reading that a young man who'd stolen something was ritually speared in the legs as an acceptable punishment. More frequently you hear of a woman falling foul of the tribal elders and being packraped by all the males in the clan, as her punishment. Another thing. It's not PC to say it, but the Australian Aborigines were unlike many other original inhabitants in that they remained until what they call the "Invasion" pretty much in the Stone Age. They made cave painting but had no writing. They used wood not metal etc etc. Their metabolisms matched the feast and famine model and adapting to western style diet, and particularly alcohol, has been a big problem. Obesity and diabetes are common, as is extreme alcoholic dependence. The various governments have provided vast amounts of money to "help" Aborigines, and now welfare dependence is itself a big problem. Positive discrimination has assisted many aborigines to break out of the cycle and join the mainstream of Australians (I can't think of a non paternalistic way to put that), where they have become successful in many fields and provided role models to others. But, a very complex problem remains. Many - inclucing Aboriginal spokespeople - have recommended withdrawing welfare. Aboriginal self government typel councils have been set up, with very limited success. And so it goes. It's agains all this backdrop you have to view the current urgent situation in the Northern Territory. I had coffee today with a friend who has worked in the area. She was unable to tell me how much of this crisis is tribal family breakdown, how much is tribal tradition, how much is the result of poverty and alcohol. It's very brave, I think, of our Prime Minister to take the action he has done. Desperate measures for a desperate situation. I guess he was more concerned about the civil liberties of the innocent children involved than suspending some other rights. That was the front page of my local newspaper. On page 3 was a smaller article about an Aboriginal woman author, Alexis Wright, who has just won Australia's most prestigious literary award (Miles Franklin award) for her novel "Carpentaria".
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construct Pioneer100© Member The Boy Next Door
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Thanks for your excellent explanation. It certainly puts things in a little more perspective. The problem of alcoholism is also a problem in our Native American population. So it's not entirely alien. We have also seen a romanticization of Native American culture similar to your "noble savage" aboriginal culture. The biggest difference that I see is that Native Americans are not particularly well-known for their sexually violent customs or the brutality of their punishments. Faced with the same situation, I wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. government gave serious thought to measures such as those in Australia. (With our present administration's record on civil rights, it doesn't take that much provocation.) I'm sure that part of my own surprise is conditioned by living in the U.S. all my life with the most extreme protections of free speech in the entire world. On that issue, I often think of Canada as being repressive. You can imagine my dismay. Thank you for taking the time to explain to us the complexity of the situation there in Australia. Even if it is tiresome, it really does help those of us (like me) who have a hard time imagining such severe culture clash.
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AussiePam Original500© Member Wild Child
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Construct, I've spent a lot of time in America and at first I guess what I saw was all our similarities. After a while though, I started to realise the considerable differences between our cultures - particularly as we share a large degree of common language. You expect to be more alike somehow. And yet we come at everything from a different point. Australia has no Bill of Rights. The issue is raised from time to time, but most people seem to see no need for it. Common law and legislation are considered by the majority to be enough. At least at the moment. We all carry our histories and cultures, our philosophies and world views with us. For instance, it's hard for the average Australian and the average American to relate deeply on hunting issues, on the right to own guns. Americans seem to accept being handcuffed for non violent offences, where Australians would be traumatised. Here you would never get arrested for failing to mow your front lawn. That would in Australia be considered laughable. And when you're old enough to vote and fight for your country and enter into a contract and marry, you are considered old enough to drink alcohol too. Australia doesn't have a Bible Belt and new world order type conspiracy stuff is likely to get blank stares of incomprehension. You got rid of the English monarchy one way, we kept them and ignore them. I'm not in any way asserting one way is right and one is wrong, or one is better or worse - just that these are deep cultural differences reflecting different history, different population racial mix etc etc. Vive la difference!!! I guess all I'm saying is that "suspension of civil rights" in a case like this one is probably not considered so shocking by the general population here in Australia. Though some politicians are jumping up and down for sure.
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construct Pioneer100© Member The Boy Next Door
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You know, we tried lowering the drinking age (to 18 in most places). That was toward the end of the Vietnam era, and the argument was pretty much what you articulated. If you were old enough to die for your country, you should be old enough to drink. (That's also when we lowered the voting age to 18, too.) Then we noticed an immediate and dramatic rise in traffic accidents. About ten years later, the federal government gave a conditional appropriation for highway improvements conditional upon the states' raising the drinking age to 21. Almost all the states complied immediately. The others resisted only for a few years. Having different ages of majority for different things does get a little confusing; and to make it worse, the age limit on marriage varies among the states. Texas just recently raised the age at which parents could agree for their children to marry. It was 14, but then a polygamous branch of Mormonism set up a compound here. They often force their very young daughters to marry old men who already have several other wives. The Texas legislature responded by raising the age to 16 with parental consent (and 14 with a court order). The age of consent (for sex) also varies among the states, and the age of consent can vary from the age requirement for sexual performance (working as a stripper, for example). So the minimum age issue can be quite complex here in the state. The end result is that children are eased into adult responsibilities and freedoms gradually during the years from 16 to 21. I think most Americans view that as a realistic policy. Does Australia have a unified age of majority across the board? One age that covers sex, marriage, stripping, drinking, driving, voting, contracting, military enlistment, etc.?
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24HourNut Administrator  Body pillows rock!
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Wow, great thread - very informative. I was very ignorant about Aboriginal people and related issues in Australia. Thanks ...
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Lady Cop Pioneer100© Member BAH HUMBUG
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  Australia apology to Aborigines The Australian government will issue a formal apology to Aborigines when parliament convenes on 13 February.
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AussiePam Original500© Member Wild Child
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Any kind of real apology of course would need to be between those who actually did something to apologise for and those who actually suffered from the actions of the first group. I don't care one way or the other about making nice but meaningless noises. I think the Scandinavian governments should equally owe me an apology for probably conquering my probably pre-celtic forebears and probably driving them out from wherever it was they started. And no doubt killing some of us too, or enslaving us... rape, pillage, murder. I want immediate compensation. It is this remembered trauma which has haunted my psyche. Lots of people are reacting in lots of predictable ways. Mostly loudly. When something like this happens, it is my cynical duty to warn my fellow australians about politicians and the smoke screen effect. Keep your eyes on what else could be going on, more quietly in the background. Happy Groundhog day, all. Candlemas. St Bridie's Day. Imbolc.
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Lady Cop Pioneer100© Member BAH HUMBUG
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 Australia apologises to Aborigines Australia's government has made a formal apology for past wrongs inflicted on the Aboriginal community. Anguish of Stolen Generations
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Lady Cop Pioneer100© Member BAH HUMBUG
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 Aborigine skulls to be taken home  A ritual Smoking Ceremony was conducted at the university A delegation of Aboriginal people from Australia has arrived in Edinburgh to take home human remains. The six skulls and a human ear bone are in collections belonging to the National Museums of Scotland and Edinburgh University. Four members of the Ngarrindjeri people made the trip to take home their ancestor's remains. Aboriginal people and the Australian Government have fought to repatriate remains from museum collections. On Monday morning, the Ngarrindjeri people burned eucalyptus leaves in front of the university's McEwan Hall in a "smoking ceremony". The ritual marked the completion of a decade-long process during which remains held in the university's collection have been returned. 'Times change' The delegation is in Edinburgh for the handover of the last piece of human remains still held at the university - a fragment of bone from a woman's ear. It later moved on to the Museum of Scotland to collect six human skulls, also dating back to the 19th century. The remains were acquired by the university more than 100 years ago, when Australia was a British colony. Dr John Scally, director of the University of Edinburgh collections, said the handover completed an important process. "Over the past decade we have been returning human remains to the Aboriginal cultures which they came from," he added. "Times have changed dramatically since we were given these remains, but we are very happy that through returning them we are able to build a new relationship with the indigenous people of Australia."
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