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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member  Without Jesus we fall short...
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Marcia Brehmer wrote: Dear Justified No hitting here. The bible is God's word and cuts like a two-edged sword. God is love and in His love He gave us His word. How can someone understand Christ by leaving out His word? Just ask if I would not share on this post because the bible is offensive too you. That's all you need to do Marcia. 
 Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Marcia Brehmer Original500© Member  World Citizen
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JustifiedByFaith wrote:Marcia Brehmer wrote:Dear Justified God's Word is not offensive to me - only the way some people use it to bash others. ('  ',%20'images/emoticons/hbeat.gif')
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Saint Forum-Blogger© Pioneer100© Member  Polymath
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Off topic: Hey JBF ... Great Avatar! Now, please resume. 
A^2 + B^2 = C^2 |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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Saint wrote: Off topic: Thanks Saint... More to come. 
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Britt Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member  Learning Contentment
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Marcia: I agree, negative reinforcement does not motivate children to behave in helpful and loving ways. NO ONE responds positively to negative reinforcement. Just ask anyone who has worked in a hostile work environment: Their every move is scrutinized and faulted, all in the name of "motivation". Such behavior does not motivate workers to be more productive, nor does it motivate children to follow good conduct; it only serves to build resentment and estrangement between people. I am always amazed at the number of managers, teachers, parents and other people in positions of authority whom believe negative reinforcement is an effective motivational tool. JustifiedByFaith: Yep, Saint is right, the new avatar is nifty. As for your interpretation of the Bible, I find it interesting that many sincere and loving Christians do not spank and use the same Bible you use to defend their position. I agree with Marcia that the Old Testament was largely annulled by Christ in favor of His teachings about love, forgiveness and reconciliation. You and I have gone round and round about this issue, but I do not understand how you embrace some of the teachings within the Old Testament and not others. Pick and choose, pick and choose. Thankfully, you will not be encouraging any rape victims to marry their assailants any time soon, yet another admonition in the Old Testament. Christ came to reform Judaism, not to support the teachings that led to the ruin of the Temple and the degradation of the Word of God. I guess I will never understand your position on this matter.
"All that you have is your soul." --Tracy Chapman |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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Britt, I have found the interpretations, mis-use of allegory and out of context use of scripture very common in Bahai faith. With that said, the specific teachings on raising and disipline of children as I have quoted from Proverbs has not been annuled by Christ. Why would God change the method of raising children mid-stream? The subject on this thread is spanking isn't it? What more specific verses regarding spanking children are available in scripture?  Anyhow, I will try to keep our future conversations as generic and simple as possible.
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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cynicalninja Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member  Smiling Shinobi
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: Anyhow, I will try to keep our future conversations as generic and simple as possible. Does the bible mention anything about being disrespectfully patronising ?  Maybe you should go and look it up, dude !  N.B - I tried to keep my wording as generic and simple as possible.
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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cynicalninja wrote: JustifiedByFaith wrote:Anyhow, I will try to keep our future conversations as generic and simple as possible. Great job ninja. 
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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shirohniichan Original500© Member  Obscurius per obscurum
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I would rather spend 95% of my time as quality time with them - playing, learning, etc. instead of what I see many other parents doing which is being too soft and asking for things 40 times as the kid has too little fear. Swift punishment, more quality time, less bad behavior. Yea, verily. I skipped some of the posts since it has become a rather long thread, but I recently heard about this issue on National Public Radio. A California state senator wanted to make spanking illegal. Listening to her gave me the distinct impression that she does not distinguish between a light smack on the buttocks and "violence" (implying abuse). If you have a toddler that tries to reach up on the stove and pull off a pot of boiling water or to run out into the street, a quick swat on the bottom will certainly help keep him or her from trying it again. Pulling the toddler aside to try to reason with her will get you nowhere. As for the Golden Rule, I see no inconsistency at all. Would I rather be raised a spoiled brat or receive discipline as a child? I'd rather have the latter, so that's what I'm giving my daughters. I've never had to spank either, but I've made it clear to the older one that I will do so if necessary. Issuing empty warning after empty warning really annoys me, as it does Frank. "Timmy, you'd better stop knocking down those flower pots or Mommy is going to give you a time out! I'm giving you until the count of three. One, two... hey, stop it! Mommy's not finished talking to you! Come back here! I'm going to give you a time out! Stop it!..." 
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24HourNut Administrator  Body pillows rock!
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shirohniichan wrote: I would rather spend 95% of my time as quality time with them - playing, learning, etc. instead of what I see many other parents doing which is being too soft and asking for things 40 times as the kid has too little fear. Swift punishment, more quality time, less bad behavior. Exactly. I wish I had a dollar for every empty threat and counting I've seen other parents do. Their kids have no fear that they will be picked up immediately and be made physically uncomfortable or punished. They lack fear and it is obvious. Fear of something physical (even if just grabbing and being brought to a time out spot) on some level is very important. You become a joke quickly if you don't follow through or let too much slide enough times. The ones I can't stand in waiting rooms are the ones who I know are not following through or pose an immediate thread. So, their kids aren't listening much or worried about it, either. I am speaking in general terms, I know there are exceptions, but I don't live by exceptions, I live by common sense and what works and I know I spend my time relaxed in waiting rooms and get to take my kids to a treat they deserve, verses anxiety, yelling, asking, begging, threatening, and then not following through to take them to a treat they do not deserve.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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Pinky Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member  Scary Mofo
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The golden rule is that if you threaten to do something, such as make them stay in their room for the rest of the day, you then have to do it. No backing down, no letting them out early. You have to be seen to do what you say you're going to do. Kids learn boundaries fairly early on, and how far they can push them. I rarely have pupils play up because they know if I say I'm going to keep them in at lunch and make them wash down the desks because they've scribbled on them, that's exactly what will happen. If I say I'll be contacting a parent, that's exactly what I do. They get to know how far they can go, but if you're consistant, you'll have far less problems without the need to wallop a kid.
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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Pinky wrote: The golden rule is that if you threaten to do something, such as make them stay in their room for the rest of the day, you then have to do it. Exactly, being believed and consistent is key. This effect is very powerful when both parents are united on this and both do it.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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Pinky Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member Scary Mofo
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24HourNut wrote: Pinky wrote:The golden rule is that if you threaten to do something, such as make them stay in their room for the rest of the day, you then have to do it. Yup! You see so many people letting kids get away with unacceptable things for an easy life. This just reinforces the message that they will be able to get away with whatever they want. I feel sorry for them, because they're making their own lives so much harder in later years.
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shirohniichan Original500© Member Obscurius per obscurum
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You see so many people letting kids get away with unacceptable things for an easy life. This just reinforces the message that they will be able to get away with whatever they want. I feel sorry for them, because they're making their own lives so much harder in later years. Schools that don't enforce the rules make the problem even worse. It's bad enough that children in school don't get any discipline at home, but it's worse when they are allowed to slide through school without mastering the fundamentals of grammar and arithmetic. By the time they get into the work force they can't understand why their bosses are so "mean" and "unreasonable." They skipped work without calling in-- so what? They didn't dress appropriately for work. Who cares? They can dress however they want, right? When they finally go to a school or job that does not let them slack off, the undisciplined child gains a persecution complex. Even when they enter into their majority, they remain children who can't take responsibility.
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Britt Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member Learning Contentment
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shirohniichan wrote: You see so many people letting kids get away with unacceptable things for an easy life. This just reinforces the message that they will be able to get away with whatever they want. I feel sorry for them, because they're making their own lives so much harder in later years. You are totally correct when you say that rules must be enforced. Otherwise, children do not respect authority. In my opinion, "discipline" and "spanking" or not the same thing, however. Discipline does not have to include spanking. It truly IS possible to raise loving and responsible adult children without spanking or hitting them. I suppose, in the end, our choices are dictated by experience. My father was never spanked (or called names) but was firmly disciplined and grew to have a strong work ethic. My children are the same, as are my siblings and I. It's just my opinion but I do not think children must be spanked to be raised as responsible adults with a strong work ethic. I fail to see a necessary connection.
"All that you have is your soul." --Tracy Chapman |
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