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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > The Christian's Straight and Narrow Path > Is Christianity a Made-up Myth Written by the Disciples? |
| Moderated by: JustifiedByFaith, 1jester | Page:   1 2 |
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moguitar Guest
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moguitar wrote: Read "Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography" by John Dominic Crossan, if you want to figure out the truth.The answer to the thread's question is partially yes. There were changes made to be in line with Old Testament prophesies, and a number of gospels that were left out. Crossan is a Professor of Biblical Studies and has done extensive historical research for many years. The book is very interesting, to say the least. Makes me glad I didn't live in those days, and thankful to God for the nutrition I get. 
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Aethelred Pioneer100© Member  Ye Olde Dead King
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There were changes made to be in line with Old Testament prophesies, and a number of gospels that were left out. Do you have some examples you could give?
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member  Jesus...above every other name
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To further enlighten, Author John Dominic Crossen is a linked member of the "Jesus Seminar" if that means anything. He also basically sees Jesus more or less as a Mediterranean Jewish Peasant and not The Only Begotten Son Of The Living God.  Last edited on 12:12 am by JustifiedByFaith  Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Aethelred Pioneer100© Member Ye Olde Dead King
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To further enlighten, Author John Dominic Crossen is a linked member of the "Jesus Seminar" if that means anything. That is very telling as the "Jesus Seminar" has been at war with the Gospel for many years now!
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moguitar Guest
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The Professor of Biblical Studies spent a lot of time in the Holy Land and going over older forms of existing Gospels and ones found that were left out, such as the Gospel of Thomas. He used the intersection of three lines including various historical documents of Greeks and Romans of the period. Of course the Old Testament as originally written was there. He showed how some changed over the course of the first 200 years AD, and later, to what they are now. To really understand would require reading the book. To actually see the translations progressing to something different than what was first written close to the time of Jesus' death. Thomas was one that was actually there, while others write about history that they weren't there to experience. Certain facts are changed or minimalized to bring the two Testaments closer. People that believe the changed history and Gospels as absolute fact do not like the findings of scholars and scientists studying the old scrolls which show the changes. That is too bad.
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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"2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; " I think we're certainly seeing this today, in the groups of people who would tell you that they are religious, but in practice are mostly not. It's easy to talk about the grave violations, the Islamic terrorists, the Christian abortion clinic bombers, etc But I think the great majority of those who (will/have) fallen away are going to be the ones who've only fallen a SHORT distance away (but which is still too far) --- and who LOOK like they're believing, and LOOK like they're religious, etc.... But most of them will be following ideas that are simply told to them by others, or which are widely accepted, or listening to the words of their minister and not checking things for themselves... .. or who just plain aren't taking religion as anything more than a social exercise.. Or who are going to be so focussed on TRUTH, that they miss the opportunities to grow their characters and souls closer to God, because to use the Bible symbology-- they are too concerned with the splinter of incorrectness in someone else's beliefs to see the LOG of incorrectness in their own beliefs and actions... Basically, we all have a tendency when reading Bible prophecy especially, to think in great sensational terms--- and think in terms of BILLIONS OF PEOPLE BEING ABSOLUTELY SADDAM-LIKE, or something like that... IMHO, the "falling away" will mostly be a lot more subtle than billions of Terminator-like sadistic killers running around on the loose.. It'll be our friends, co-workers, neighbors... perhaps even our families.. ..who will not be THAT far fallen away--- but will be far enough such that they are not working on their relationship with God -- as I said above, they may be downright God-less and otherwise quite polite and nice -- they may be treating God as too much of a social affair instead of the learning/growing/changing/loving relationship it's meant to be.. or they may be too concerned with judging the actions of others, the beliefs of others, anything but focussing on THEIR needs to improve and not others... in all the ways that "judgementalism' is generally seen... All in all -- the "great falling" will IMHO, be mostly about people who, for a multitude of reasons, are far too distracted from their OWN spiritual tasks and relationship with God. Last edited on 03:34 am by sirlamre |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Jesus...above every other name
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sirlamre wrote: "2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; " I don't know how to respond to this being you went from Christian to Bahai? I find your position of commentary regarding the "Falling Away" as spoken by Paul unusual? Didn't you say you once were Christian in belief and now believe according to Baha'u'llah? What does "falling away" mean to you out of curiosity sirlamre? Last edited on 03:56 am by JustifiedByFaith Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Aethelred Pioneer100© Member Ye Olde Dead King
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In Second Timothy chapter 3 Paul gives us more information about this: 2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 2Ti 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. 2Ti 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 2Ti 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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JustifiedByFaith wrote:
I never said I was "once Christian, and now Baha'i instead" Read the Kitab-i-Iqan. You'll find that Baha'u'llah CLEARLY says that all Baha'is should believe in Christ and follow Him. NOW -- we may not do that the same way that YOU do -- but that doesn't mean we're not still a follower of Christ in what we believe to be the 'right' way... So no, I don't consider myself to have 'fallen away' in any sense of the word whatsoever-- unless I'm less than what I should be as a Baha'i (and yeah, that's probably somewhat true..I'm only human and not perfect) Read my post--- you'll see that what I describe as 'falling away' is more of a thing about whether or not you're REALLY trying to follow God's Will, or whether you're just talking the talk, and being far too involved in judging the spiritual/moral/ethical qualities of OTHER people's lives and not your own...
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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"For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, " Exactly--- Does this not describe a great many 'nice' people? who just happen to also NOT be obedient to God first and last? People who think that all they have to do is love themselves and each other, and NOT worry about God? And yes, there are covetous boasters, prideful people (seen anyone proud to be a Christian lately? I have)... Lots of things fit in from those verses you quoted Aethel--- My point is that a LOT of people are those things--- either internally, or externally where we can see it.. It's NOT just about people of the quality of Saddam's sons --- it's about the guy down the street in the hardware store who GOES to church once in a while, and SAYS he's a Christian --- and acts like one too, sometimes--- but INSIDE, God knows better...
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Jesus...above every other name
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sirlamre wrote: JustifiedByFaith wrote: http://www.biblefood.com/apostasia.html
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Aethelred Pioneer100© Member Ye Olde Dead King
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Read the Kitab-i-Iqan. You'll find that Baha'u'llah CLEARLY says that all Baha'is should believe in Christ and follow Him. Are you saying that anyone who does it a different was is doing so in what you believe to be the wrong way?
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DesertRat Forum-Blogger© Pioneer100© Member 
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One thing that always comes to mind when I hear someone say the Bible is myth is this; Why would these men (apostles) who ran from Jesus when he was arrested, who denied Christ to save themselves (Peter) and witnessed the horrible execution of this innocent man, then turn around mere days later and begin teaching the same message to the masses? Surely any sane man would say to themselves "whew! I barely escaped that mess and I'm lucky to be alive. I better lay low for awhile or leave town in case they recognize me and come after me as well." Did the disciples do that? No! A week after the crucifiction they were out preaching the same message Christ did and with unbridled enthusiasm! What could possible have posessed these men to face almost certain persecution and death so soon after their leader died? They certainly were not seeking to become famous unless they wanted to be famous for dying a horrible death as Jesus did. Money? Ha! On the day Jesus died He was scorned by the crowd and spit on, laughed at and ridiculed. Certainly that was not something the apostles would look at and say "I wanna be just like Him, I'm gonna be rich!" The Holy Spirit is what posessed them, that's what! They saw the resurrected Savior and received the Holy Spirit. The teachings of Jesus were complete and they were able to physically see salvation in action! There is no other explanation that could justify their post crucifiction actions.
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Jesus...above every other name
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DesertRat wrote: One thing that always comes to mind when I hear someone say the Bible is myth is this; Why would these men (apostles) who ran from Jesus when he was arrested, who denied Christ to save themselves (Peter) and witnessed the horrible execution of this innocent man, then turn around mere days later and begin teaching the same message to the masses? Surely any sane man would say to themselves "whew! I barely escaped that mess and I'm lucky to be alive. I better lay low for awhile or leave town in case they recognize me and come after me as well." Very well described DesertRat. 
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > The Christian's Straight and Narrow Path > Is Christianity a Made-up Myth Written by the Disciples? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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