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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > The Christian's Straight and Narrow Path > GET ANSWERS: The Crucifixion & Resurrection of Christ |
| Moderated by: JustifiedByFaith, 1jester | Page:   1 2 3 4 5 6   |
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Friend Original500© Member  Peaceful In The Morning
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If Jesus Christ is who he says he is and he came from a place where time is neverending than He is Deity and His teachings are the (only) way of the TRUTH. He said that his name would be spread throughout the world as the time gets close to His return and this seems to be the case. If he was just a man why then has his named gone on for all these years even at the risk of of torture or death. I would go on, but my opinion cannot do what the Holy Spirit was sent to do. I may place a link or two about the resurrection, but I may not necessarily hold the same view in certain areas, but I do believe that Yeshua was sent to be our Salvation. http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/easter/articles/josh2.html
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berinwitness Original500© Member
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OVER 500 WITNESSES The above quote is from Josh McDowell's article cited by Friend. I put part of it in boldface. Here is my question: How are we supposed to ask any of the 500 witnesses about what happened? Paul does not name a single one of them. He also does not say ANYTHING about where or when this specific Resurrection appearance occurred. The claim that we could put them in a courtroom is, therefore, nonsense.
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1jester Pioneer100© Member  Pilgrim Sojourner
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If we don't believe the Bible, who can we possibly believe? "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." --I John 5:5-12 "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: but he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also." --I John 2:22-23 "For there is on God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." --I Timothy 2:5 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." --Phillipians 2:5-11
 Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. -Matthew 22:37-39 |
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berinwitness Original500© Member
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I'm a bit confused here. Is that a response to my question?
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1jester Pioneer100© Member Pilgrim Sojourner
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berinwitness wrote: I'm a bit confused here. Is that a response to my question?Yes. Jesus is witnessed not only by men, but by God Himself. Remember when He was baptized, God the Father was present (His voice was heard) and the Holy Spirit was also present in the form of a dove, also visible. God was heard saying that Jesus was His only begotten Son. If you don't want to believe 500 men that Jesus was God, shouldn't you at least believe God's assertion to that effect?
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. -Matthew 22:37-39 |
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berinwitness Original500© Member
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1jester wrote: If you don't want to believe 500 men that Jesus was God, shouldn't you at least believe God's assertion to that effect? What does this statement have to do with the question I asked? Here it is again: How are we supposed to ask any of the 500 witnesses about what happened? Paul does not name a single one of them. He also does not say ANYTHING about where or when this specific Resurrection appearance occurred.
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1jester Pioneer100© Member Pilgrim Sojourner
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How would you be able to ask any of them even if Paul had named them?
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. -Matthew 22:37-39 |
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berinwitness Original500© Member
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1jester wrote: How would you be able to ask any of them even if Paul had named them? Earlier in this thread Friend quotes Josh McDowell. Included in the quote is this statement: Let's take the more than 500 witnesses who saw Jesus alive after His death and burial, and place them in a courtroom. Do you realize that if each of those 500 people were to testify for only six minutes, including cross-examination, you would have an amazing 50 hours of firsthand testimony? What I want to know is: How are we going to get any of the 500 witnesses into a courtroom for cross-examination if we don't know who they are? How could anyone in Paul's time have talked to them to verify Paul's claim if Paul didn't name any of them? How is the statement that 500 people saw the Resurrected Jesus proof of anything?
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1jester Pioneer100© Member Pilgrim Sojourner
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How do you know Paul didn't name them? Or maybe it was so obvious who he was referring to (and we do know a few of those people, by the way; for instance the disciples, Mary Magdalene, etc) that he didn't feel it necessary to name them? Why do you feel that since Paul didn't specifically spell out the names of all 500 in his letter, his claims are invalid? Can't you surmise that at the time such a claim wouldn't have gone unchallenged if it had been false?
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. -Matthew 22:37-39 |
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berinwitness Original500© Member
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1jester wrote: How do you know Paul didn't name them? 1st Corinthians 15:6 does not name any. Secondly, if Paul HAD named some, I would assume that somewhere in the various apologetics books and websites I have read some Christian would have pointed it out. For that matter, YOU have not identified the verse(s) where Paul names any. we do know a few of those people, by the way; for instance the disciples, Mary Magdalene, etc. Please quote the Bible to show any of them were among the 500. And I don't mean an assumption on your part, QUOTE the Bible where it specifically mentions the event of 500 witnesses AND identifies any of these people as having been present on that occassion. Why do you feel that since Paul didn't specifically spell out the names of all 500 in his letter, his claims are invalid? I'm not questioning Paul's claim at all, because it is unimportant to me. I challenge the claim of modern-day Christians that I should accept Paul's statement as evidence. Can't you surmise that at the time such a claim wouldn't have gone unchallenged if it had been false? Perhaps all the challenges were on the same level as written challenges to Baha'u'llah's claims during His lifetime. Nobody thought the claim was important enough to bother challenging.
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member  Without Jesus we fall short...
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berinwitness wrote: 1jester wrote:If you don't want to believe 500 men that Jesus was God, shouldn't you at least believe God's assertion to that effect? Paul was stating the simple fact that at the time of his letter there were 500+- witnesses available for questioning to verify the resurrection. Simple as that. Powerfull credibility!
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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berinwitness Original500© Member
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And you still haven't answered my question. If any non-Christian in Paul's time had read Paul's letter and wanted to verify the claim that 500 people has seen the risen Jesus at on time, how would that person be able to identify any of the 500?
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berinwitness Original500© Member
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: Paul was stating the simple fact that at the time of his letter there were 500+- witnesses available for questioning to verify the resurrection. Simple as that. Powerfull credibility! Since Paul did not identify any of the witnesses by name, or state when or where the event occurred, how were any of the witnesses available for questioning?
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1jester Pioneer100© Member Pilgrim Sojourner
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berinwitness wrote: And you still haven't answered my question. If any non-Christian in Paul's time had read Paul's letter and wanted to verify the claim that 500 people has seen the risen Jesus at on time, how would that person be able to identify any of the 500?They could have asked Paul, don't you think? Or other people who knew him? And since it's so immaterial to you, why are you interested in this issue at all? Why do you even challenge Paul's (and the Holy Spirit's) claim? "I'm not questioning Paul's claim at all, because it is unimportant to me. I challenge the claim of modern-day Christians that I should accept Paul's statement as evidence." You must not accept the Bible or its claim as the word of God.
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. -Matthew 22:37-39 |
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berinwitness Original500© Member
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1jester wrote: They could have asked Paul, don't you think? Or other people who knew him? Did they? What evidence can you provide that any skeptic tracked down any of the witnesses and questioned them? And since it's so immaterial to you, why are you interested in this issue at all? Why do you even challenge Paul's (and the Holy Spirit's) claim? What I am trying to do is find out if Christians have answers to my questions. So far, over a period of more than thirty years, you haven't done so well.
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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > The Christian's Straight and Narrow Path > GET ANSWERS: The Crucifixion & Resurrection of Christ | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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