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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > The Christian's Straight and Narrow Path > House Churches-Cell Churches |
| Moderated by: JustifiedByFaith, 1jester | Page: 1 2 3   |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member  Playing to a different drummer
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The more I study the New Testament church growth as seen in Acts, 1 Corinthians , Romans and throughout the New Testament...the more I see the modern church to be riddled with "the traditions of men." I will give examples both biblical and modern day as this thread progresses. What's your take on the modern church body of Christ?  Is it Holy Spirit driven or a lot of fleshly indulgences? Is the Holy Spirit being quenched today in the body of Christ? Were the Apostle Paul's examples of how to get together, spread the church, fellowship, worship and break bread now outdated and in need of modernization?
 There's a saying. If you want someone to love you forever, buy a dog, feed it and keep it around. Dick Dale |
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pmh1nic Pioneer100© Member 
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JBF I'm somewhat torn on the issue of house churches versus larger congregation having been involved in both over the years. The house church can be a wonderful means of building relationships with a small group of believers. There is a special bond that takes place when you worship, pray, study the Word and care for one another on a regular basis as part of a small group. You also avoid some of the financial burdens that can be a part of maintaining a large church facility. With the good are potential problems and shortcomings with small groups. Some of the potential problems are leadership issues (training, accountability, maintaining doctrinal orthodoxy, abuse of power) and limitations with respect to resources that affect the groups potential for outreach. While you have house churches mentioned in the New Testament there is also a trend towards a centralized authority (Church in Jerusalem) and an organized pooling of resources (collections made to benefit churches in areas that were going through some time of economic hardship). Large congregations and the networking among them provide a means of leadership accountability and expand the potential for ministry worldwide by pooling resources. I think great care should be exercised regarding stewardship (using pooled resources wisely) and I have an issue with lavish building projects justified by claiming that lavish spending somehow honors God as in the OT tabernacle and temple. Those buildings were symboling of something spiritual that has a spiritual fulfillment in the people of God being built up a "holy habitation". God is honored by our love and obedience not by 50 foot cathedral ceilings and gold ornaments. The ability to pool resources (both spiritual and material) can greatly expand the ministry potential of the church in ways that would be impossible for individual house churches. In addition the concept of the house church can be incorporated into large congregations by having small group meetings during the week that compliment the large gathering on Sunday. In these meetings the bonding of a small group of believers occurs and it's where the real connecting takes place in a very practical way.
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bg Original500© Member 
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: The more I study the New Testament church growth as seen in Acts, 1 Corinthians , Romans and throughout the New Testament...the more I see the modern church to be riddled with "the traditions of men." well JBF, this is a really sensitive subject for me. I wont rant and rave but I am very displeased with the overall state of the church, but more specifically on the cell groups issue--I like it; it's very intimate and more interactive for questions, comments and thought sharing
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muddawber Guardian1000© Member 
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I can see a need and a place for both. Several years ago, I was involved with a group where we meet each week at one person's house. We would come together, and have bible study, studying the Greek and Hebrew, and have song and prayer. Afterward, we would have a good meal, and continue to discuss the Word. All this helped to get through the week until Sunday services. Most of us in the group were of different denominations, but we came together in one accord. There was no denominational doctrine with us, just plain straight Bible. But, we didn't "forsake the assembly". On sunday we would all go to our respective churches and worship. I had a Baptist preacher, who was insturmental in starting me in the Greek studies, who ask the question, "how much of the Holy Spirit is in the church?" We didn't know the answer, so he told us, "only as much as the individual brings in." If a church is going to be spirit filled and spirit led, the individual members need to be that way for the church to be. Then, I feel the church can get away from the man made traditions we are stuck in. Last edited on 03:35 pm by muddawber |
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pmh1nic Pioneer100© Member
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bg "I am very displeased with the overall state of the church..." I understand and identify with your discouragement. Having said that if you read through the epistles you'll find that many of the same issues and problems the church is struggling with today were issues the church was dealing with from the very beginning and throughout church history. From false doctrine to gross immorality to selfishness and greed, all of these things were present and being addressed in the early church. In a very real sense the church is made up of some of the most disfunctional individuals in society. Add to that the wolves in sheeps clothing and it's a wonder there aren't even more problems. But by the grace of God and the transforming work of the Holy Spirit there is hope for the hopeless, healing for the hurting and restoration for the broken. Out of this mess of humanity that we call the church God is preparing a pure and spotless Bride. One of the greatest challenges to my faith has been believing that in spite of all of my failures and falling short He really is going to complete the work He began in me and that somehow, someday I will truely match Him in life and character.
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Playing to a different drummer
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pmh1nic wrote:
Hi pmh1nic, I do not see a trend toward centralized authority in the New Testament? The Apostle Paul preached in different cities and stayed in the city for typically a short time and then left to preach in another city. Later, we see for example... Paul speaking to Titus to leave him in Crete to appoint elders in each city. This was usuallly after there was time for the Holy Spirit to add to the Church and bring forth the gifts as He pleased. Later, those in the body who shown the attributes of eldership and usually during Paul's second time through town were then appointed as elders. These elders were not set in each individual home, but overseers of the church in general in each city which composed of several homes that made up the body and was the church for that city. Rev 2:1; 2:8; 2:12; 2:18; 3:1; 3:7 Acts 8:1; 11:26; 18:22; Romans 16:1; Colossians 4:16; 1 Thes 1:1; 1 Cor 1:2.
There's a saying. If you want someone to love you forever, buy a dog, feed it and keep it around. Dick Dale |
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muddawber Guardian1000© Member
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: pmh1nic wrote: Wasn't the idea of the church, or the assembly, the body of believers? It didn't have the meaning of a building, such as the temple. The church is the body of Christ, not a building, and I don't think that it was meant to be a centralized entity or authority. Each individual church was to be governed by the locals, and not a central authority, such as the Jeruselam church, but by the scriptures. And, we have to remember that at that time, there was no New Testament, just the Old Testament, which that was not what it was called. They only had those scriptures, plus what the disciples knew first hand of Christ' teachings. The church didn't have all the man made garbage that we have today.
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Playing to a different drummer
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muddawber wrote: The church didn't have all the man made garbage that we have today. I agree. I also see that maybe pmh1nic was speaking of the growth in reference to the centralized direction as being later driven by Rome and/or by other man-made customs and influences of accumulation and comforts. I am open to all discussions and examples of church (body) growth modern and 1st century. 
There's a saying. If you want someone to love you forever, buy a dog, feed it and keep it around. Dick Dale |
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muddawber Guardian1000© Member
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: muddawber wrote:The church didn't have all the man made garbage that we have today. I see more and more, with the rapid growth of the mega-churches, a preaching of a feel good gospel. One that leaves sin and salvation out of the equation. For the most part, all I see and hear is how to feel good about yourself, and how to obtain riches. I rarely ever hear any quotes from scripture, only he said that he said, and not talking about Jesus.
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pmh1nic Pioneer100© Member
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muddawber There was centralize authority within geographic regions (cities) that oversaw the house churches in that locality. There also seems to be an expression of special authority based in the church in Jerusalem (Acts 11:22, 15:2~4). Actually the mega-churchs are in a decline based on the statistics I've heard. The vast majority of the church growth in the U.S. is among churches that number in the few hundreds. Last edited on 05:14 am by pmh1nic |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Playing to a different drummer
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pmh1nic wrote: muddawber It appears that the church here mentioned in Jerusalem was very Jewish based and frequented likely by that of Peter and James who have shared and supported the missions of Paul to there brothers and sisters of the faith.They came to this church to share what was happening outside of Jerusalem regarding the gentiles coming to faith. When the church body left the synagogues and temple worship and went out to the gentiles... the homes of the believers became known as the church in each city as I'm sure you would not dispute. I would love to see the body of Christ get back to the basics of true fellowship in love, prayer, sharing of gifts and eating the Lord's Supper together once again.
There's a saying. If you want someone to love you forever, buy a dog, feed it and keep it around. Dick Dale |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Playing to a different drummer
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The other biblical example we see regarding the early church was it's informal and flexible style. The Holy Spirit was free and active to move and work. He was not quenched and compartmentalized. The church was not rigid with schedules, events and time constraints. The body of Christ was designed for mutual, powerful, gifted edification not a monologue Sunday Morning Service presented by one man with the gift of teaching at the expense of all the other spiritual gifts being on hold or restrained.
There's a saying. If you want someone to love you forever, buy a dog, feed it and keep it around. Dick Dale |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Playing to a different drummer
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pmh1nic wrote: The vast majority of the church growth in the U.S. is among churches that number in the few hundreds. We have consistently been about 6-15 families for about 7 years now. How about your church body?
There's a saying. If you want someone to love you forever, buy a dog, feed it and keep it around. Dick Dale |
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pmh1nic Pioneer100© Member
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JBF When a dispute arose regarding how the gentiles should be assimilated into the church the decision regarding how that should be handled was deferred to the leadership in Jerusalem. It also appears that in the beginning of Paul's ministry his visit to Jerusalem was in part to receive the acceptance and blessing of the leadership in Jerusalem (although if you read Galatians Paul wasn't looking to that leadership as those ultimately setting the direction for his ministry). In additional the Apostles including Paul exercised the authority to appoint elders in every city which is itself an exercise of centralized authority over the local churches. The church I attended was established in 1978 and took about 10 years to reach 100 ~ 150 in regular attendance. There was a leveling off in that range and we remain there with slight growth for many years. I can't explain all the facets that lead to our grow but one of the main factors was a revival among our youth (13 ~ 25) in 1996 that rippled through the church and community. This began a steady increase in growth and today we number about 600. While there are a number of mega churches in New York State (primarily in NYC) the vast majority of the churches in the state number less then 200 members.
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Playing to a different drummer
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pmh1nic wrote: JBF It sure seems as if he had large a hurdle at first convincing them that God called him to go to the gentiles?  We see that Peter and James became kinda the "middle-men" for those of the "circumcision" and were in agreement with Paul and his ministry. "and consider that the long suffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures." 2 Peter 3:15-16
There's a saying. If you want someone to love you forever, buy a dog, feed it and keep it around. Dick Dale |
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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > The Christian's Straight and Narrow Path > House Churches-Cell Churches | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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