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 Moderated by: JustifiedByFaith, 1jester Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2   

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muddawber
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 Posted: 09:56 pm

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pmh1nic wrote: muddawber

"Would you please explain that last sentence in laymans terms."

In the eyes of God our "position" is in Christ. God see us as righteous, fully sanctified and glorified. God sees the finished work.

Dispositionally as we exist today in time our life, nature, character, thoughts and actions don't match what God sees from His eternal perspective. From our perspective as viewed in time we are in the process of santification and acquiring a "dispositional" righteousness and holiness.

The Bible says we that are being transformed to be like Christ in life, nature and character. Someday the dispositional (who we are in life, nature and character) will match the positional (who we are as God sees us in Christ, as already being holy, righteous and pure).

One finally note. Our dispositional righteousness can never earn us salvation. It is only through the continual forgiveness of God based in the sacrifice Jesus made for us on the cross that we are made right with God. That sacrifice and continual forgiveness makes it possible for us to continue in this process of transformation.

I apologize for not being able to convey this as clearly as it probably could be.
I think I see what you are saying. Through the acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, we are put in the position that God wants us to be in. Through sanctification, i.e., we are saved, we are being saved, and we shall be saved, we come to realize that position as we mature or grow in Christ.

The dispositional, or human nature moves us away from that position when we allow ourselves to be conformed to this world, and not transformed by the renewing of our minds. Am I close to what you are saying?

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pmh1nic
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 Posted: 02:57 am

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muddawber

O.k., so maybe I didn't do such a bad job :).

Our disposition is being changed as we are being sanctified and transformed. The Bible says "God is at work in us to will and to do of His good pleasure". That is a change in disposition from my will be done to thy will be done.
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 Posted: 04:30 am

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"...that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for the just shall live by faith. Yet the law is not of faith, but the man who does them shall live by them. Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law...so the blessings of Abraham might come upon the gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."

Gal 3:11-14




Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you."

Matthew 24:4
muddawber
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 Posted: 04:45 am

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pmh1nic wrote: muddawber

O.k., so maybe I didn't do such a bad job :).

Our disposition is being changed as we are being sanctified and transformed. The Bible says "God is at work in us to will and to do of His good pleasure". That is a change in disposition from my will be done to thy will be done.
It's just that I had never heard of the term disposition, and that was what was throwing me. Once you said what you did, it came to me what you were trying to say. Thanks.
pmh1nic
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 Posted: 05:51 pm

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muddawber

I'm trying to remember where I first heard this principle described using the words positional and dispositional but remembering is getting tougher to do as fifty becomes the distant past and sixty looms large in the near future.

In most case I prefer to describe Biblical principles using words found in the Bible. I think doing this helps avoid error.
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 Posted: 07:40 pm

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pmh1nic wrote: muddawber

I'm trying to remember where I first heard this principle described using the words positional and dispositional but remembering is getting tougher to do as fifty becomes the distant past and sixty looms large in the near future.

In most case I prefer to describe Biblical principles using words found in the Bible. I think doing this helps avoid error.
I know what you mean about 60 and memory. I seem to be losing one and gaining the other faster than I care to. As far using words, I was always taught by a preacher friend/mentor to use the KISS method. Keep It Simple Stupid, and I am the stupid. If I can get it down to where I can understand it, then I feel I can explain it to someone else. I try to stay away from the theological mumble jumble, because it only confuses someone, especially if they aren't students of the Bible.
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 Posted: 02:45 pm

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muddawber wrote: 1jester wrote: I agree that the Mosaic code, including the 10 commandments, were given to the Israelites, and Christ's dying on the cross for us signaled a new covenant.

I think the Sabbath day as set forth in the 4th commandment is of course sundown Friday to sundown Saturday, and hasn't changed. The Jews still observe the sabbath. Some Christians do too. I used to, until I came to the realization that the sabbath is one of the works that we needn't do to be saved. Sunday has never been considered a sabbath, but many Christians believe it has supplanted the sabbath day, which I don't believe to be true. The bible instructs us to not judge others even if one worships on one day and another on a different one, or if one chooses not to worship on any particular day. The bible does record how early Christians met on Sunday to celebrate Christ's rising, but I'm not convinced that this was meant to supplant the sabbath. Rather, as JBF mentioned, we are freed in Christ.
The way I see it, is that in Acts 20:7, is where the preaching of the Word was done on Sunday in the New Testament. It says, "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."

Keep in mind, that evey mention of the sabbath in the NT, where the disciples went to the synagogues, they were preaching to the jews, who kept the sabbath, and were preaching to them Jesus Christ. They weren't preaching to Christians as I can tell.

Some other things to take into consideration is, Sunday worship is to commemorate the resurrection, The Lord's manifestations to the disciples were on Sunday, Pentacost, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit was on Sunday, and Christ or none of the apostles made mention of or commanded anyone to keep the old Jewish sabbath. There are other reasons, but I think you can get the picture from this. What does it matter anyway when you observe the Sabbath. Many people have to work on Saturday, or lose their jobs. So any day that they can observe sabbath and keep it holy, to me is in keeping with God's will.


Brother, I fully agree with your other posts in this thread; I only wanted to comment on some aspects of this one.

If Sabbath keeping were necessary today (which it isn't), I would think keeping the Sabbath holy would be more important than keeping my job.  As I mentioned, I did keep the 4th Commandment for many years, until I came to the realization that Jesus' death on Calvary freed us from this (and other) laws which are "impossible to keep", as one of the apostles said.  Thus, Christ has freed us from these laws, including sabbath worship on any day whatsoever.  That's what the Bible confirms as well.  Sunday can never supplant the Sabbath day, and that's good news for us.  That's why the Bible tells us that we shouldn't judge one for worshipping on one day over another, or holding no particular day holy.  We have rest in Jesus.  That's all we need.  We have no need of a particular day to keep holy in the manner of the Mosaic code.

Also, I believe the apostles preached every day.  I doubt one day passed when they didn't preach.  The Gospel doesn't rest, thank God.

Bless you for sharing with us!




Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. -Matthew 22:37-39
shirohniichan
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 Posted: 10:32 pm

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pmh1nic wrote: muddawber

I'm trying to remember where I first heard this principle described using the words positional and dispositional but remembering is getting tougher to do as fifty becomes the distant past and sixty looms large in the near future.

In most case I prefer to describe Biblical principles using words found in the Bible. I think doing this helps avoid error.

I think it's easier to speak in the biblical terms of justification and sanctification.

We are justified (accounted righteous in God's sight) because of the accomplished work of Jesus Christ on our behalf, both in living a fully righteous life (and thus fulfilling the law) and dying a sinner's death (taking God's wrath against sin) for us. Luther called this the "blessed exchange".

Our church uses the three G's-- guilt, grace, and gratitude. The Law was written to show us our guilt before God both in having transgressed his law and in being unable to keep it. When we place our faith in Jesus Christ we receive his grace (his graciousness toward us in the blessed exchange). Once we are accounted righteous we serve God in gratitude for what he has already done for us. This is the practical working out of sanctification (our being set apart for holy use by God). Sanctification can't earn us salvation-- it is the experience of those who have already received justification.
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 Posted: 10:38 pm

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shirohniichan wrote:

Our church uses the three G's-- guilt, grace, and gratitude. The Law was written to show us our guilt before God both in having transgressed his law and in being unable to keep it. When we place our faith in Jesus Christ we receive his grace (his graciousness toward us in the blessed exchange). Once we are accounted righteous we serve God in gratitude for what he has already done for us.

 

I like the three G's! It reminds me of the Romans Road that we teach in Sunday school. :)




Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you."

Matthew 24:4

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 Posted: 01:32 pm

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Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you."

Matthew 24:4

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