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| Moderated by: JustifiedByFaith, 1jester | Page:   1 2 3 4 |
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seekeroftruth Original500© Member
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pmh1nic wrote: "Seeker: So what you are saying is that you shell know them (their fruits) by what they say, is that what you are saying?? So if you are a con man and your goal is to trick people out of their money, all people need to do is listen to what you say and they will discover that you are a con?? What does a deceiver do?? Don’t they tell lies??? Would’ent their speech be full of lies?? Full of things that sound good?? Is this really what you’re saying “listen to what they say and you won’t be deceived?? I think that’s very naive." Thanks pmh1nic for your reply. I've said what needed to be said about this war. One day you will understand that we Americas should have never ever gone into Iran. It was not biblical. Keep your eyes open and question. What you hear on the new is purposely meant to confuse you. Satan is the father of lies. Always search scripture before you offer you son or daughter to fight in war. Their lives matter and if they are going to die in a war it must be a Just War http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=847J99MkUdk this video says it all
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Saint Forum-Blogger© Pioneer100© Member  Polymath
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Well, everyone here has a good point, but seeker, stop thread stretching!
 A^2 + B^2 = C^2 |
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seekeroftruth Original500© Member
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Saint wrote: Well, everyone here has a good point, but seeker, stop thread stretching! are you saying don't start new topics? do you agree 24hour hut? 
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pmh1nic Pioneer100© Member 
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"Thanks pmh1nic for your reply." You're welcome. "I've said what needed to be said about this war." Just about everything that could be said about this war on both sides has been said for the billionth time. "One day you will understand that we Americas should have never ever gone into Iran. It was not biblical." I'm not sure what you mean by the war not being "biblical" but I do believe it was/is a just war even given the misinformation about WMD's. Fact: Saddam's regime violated the 1991 surrender agreement. Fact: Saddam's regime violated numerous U.N. sanctions regarding WMD's (inspections, disclosure, attempts to evade, etc.). Fact: Saddam's regime murdered, tortured, imprisoned and terrorized hundreds of thousands of Iraqis between 1991 and 2003. Fact: Saddam's regime provided aid and comfort to terrorist. "Keep your eyes open and question." In my eyes we had more then enough moral justification for removing Saddam from power. Tactically we could have done a better job of it. We could argue whether strategically it was the best option to take at the time (go after Iran first, try to finish the job in Afgtanistan first, etc.). The bottomline is we are in Iraq today and we have to deal with the strategic AND moral consequences of allowing the country and region to plunge into chaos going forward. "Always search scripture before you offer you son or daughter to fight in war." I not only search the scriptures but the books, newspapers, magazines, C-span, internet, etc. to understand the facts regarding this issue. Based on what I've read President Bush does the same (search the scriptures). My educated guess is he knows a heck of a lot more about the facts of these issues then I or anyone else on this forum knows. He has the very heavy weight on his shoulders of having ordered and continuing to order young men and women to make the ultimate sacrifice in this war. However, I don't think he does that lightly. I don't believe as some have suggested that he has or continues to call them to make that sacrifice beacue its ALL ABOUT OIL or his is AVENGING HIS FATHER or because he is A SHOOT FROM HIP COWBOY. I believe he sincerely believes his decision to go into Iraq is ultimately in the best interest of freedom and democracy in the region and globally. That freedom also opens to the door for sharing the gospel message and the true freedom that is found in having a relationship with Jesus Christ. My son and daughters are all grown adults. Ultimately they will make the decision regarding what sacrifices they will make regarding this war.
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seekeroftruth Original500© Member
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pmh1nic wrote: "Thanks pmh1nic for your reply." Israel has weapons of mass destruction should we go bomb them too? I know for a fact that this war is wrong. One day you will know for a fact that it's wrong too. As of this moment you are still deceived. All I can say is: Ask questions and dig for the answers. Don't believe what you hear on TV and pray. I was in your shoes not long ago so I understand where you're coming from. I'm sure your really angry with me right now. You may think I'm a no it all sorry but I know what I know.
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seekeroftruth Original500© Member
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If Bush cared about the freedoms of Americans then why did he pass the Patriot Act?? Most Christians don't even know anything about the patriot act and that's one of the reasons I say "ask questions" A good one to start with is, what does the partiot act do to help americans be free? A dissection of the PATRIOT Act expansion by Timothy H. Edgar, Legislative Counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union, revealed the legislation would diminish personal privacy by removing checks on government power by: - Making it easier to initiate surveillance and wiretapping of U. S. Citizens under the authority of the little-known Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC). (Sections 101, 102 and 107) - Permitting the government, under certain circumstances, to bypass the FISC altogether and conduct warrantless wiretaps and searches. (Sections 103 and 104) - Sheltering federal agents engaged in illegal surveillance without a court order from criminal prosecution if they are following the orders of Executive Branch officials. (Section 106) - Creating a new category of "domestic security surveillance" that permits electronic eavesdropping of entirely domestic activity under looser standards than provided for ordinary criminal surveillance. (Section 122) - Using an overly broad definition of terrorism that could cover some protest tactics such as those used by Operation Rescue or the protesters at Vieques Island, Puerto Rico, as a new predicate for criminal wiretapping and other electronic surveillance (Sections 120 and 121) - Providing for general surveillance orders covering multiple functions for high-tech devices and by further expanding pen register and trap and trace authority for intelligence surveillance of U.S. citizens and lawful permanent foreign residents. (Sections 107-124) - Creating a new and separate crime of using encryption technology that could add five years to any jail sentence for crimes committed with a computer. ((Section 144) - Expanding the PATRIOT Act's definition of nationwide search warrants and giving the government secret access to credit reports with consent or judicial process (Sections 125 and 126) - Enhancing the government's ability to obtain sensitive personal information without prior judicial approval and providing new penalties for failure to comply with written demands for such records. (Sections 128 and 129) - Allowing for the sampling and cataloging of innocent Americans ' genetic [DNA} information without a court order or the individual's consent. (Sections 301-306) - Permitting sensitive personal information to be shared with state and local law enforcement agencies despite any connection to anti-terrorism measures, (Section 311) - Terminating court-approved limits on police spying, put in place to prevent Mc-Carthy-era style police persecution based on political or religious affiliation. (Section 312) - Permitting searches, wiretaps and surveillance of U.S. citizens on behalf of foreign governments - to include dictators and human rights abusers' - in the absence of Senate-approved treaties. (Sections 321-322) - Authorizing secret arrests in immigration, material witness and other cases where the detained person is not criminally charged. (Section 201) - Threatening public health by severely restricting access to crucial information concerning health risks by facilities that use dangerous chemicals. (Section 202) - Diminishing corporate responsibility by grant immunity to businesses that provide information to government terrorism investigations even if such actions are taken with disregard for the customer's privacy and show reckless disregard for the truth. (Section 313) - Undermines basic constitutional rights by overly broad definitions of "terrorism" and "terrorist organization" which could result in stripping a native-born American of citizenship if they wittingly or unwittingly support any organization deemed terrorist by government officials. (Section 501) - Creating 15 new categories of the death penalty, including one should a death result from otherwise peaceful protests such as Operation Rescue. (Section 411) - Permitting arrests and extradition of American citizens to any foreign country including ones with bad human rights records, in the absence of a Senate-approved treaty and unfairly targeting immigrants by opening sensitive personal visa files to local law enforcement agencies and extended jail terms for common immigration offenses. (Sections 322, 311 and 502) - Permitting summary deportations of American citizens deemed a threat to national security by Attorney General Ashcroft, even with no evidence of criminal activity, intent or terrorism. (Section 503) -Completely abolishing fair hearings for American citizens convicted of minor criminal offenses through a retroactive "expedited removal" procedure and preventing any court from questioning the government' s unlawful actions by explicitly exempting these cases from habeas corpus review. (Section 504) ACLU counsel Edgar noted that the constitutional protection of habeas corpus (the right to a hearing to determine if any criminal offense has been committed) has not been exempted since the War Between the States.
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pmh1nic Pioneer100© Member
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"Israel has weapons of mass destruction should we go bomb them too?" How many Israeli citizens have been murdered by their government's use of WMD's? "I know for a fact that this war is wrong." I gave you the facts regarding the justifications for this war. Please list your facts. "As of this moment you are still deceived." Please refute with facts the facts I outlined above. "If Bush cared about the freedoms of Americans then why did he pass the Patriot Act??" So your "source" for truth is the ACLU!!! There are limits, checks and balances with respect to personal freedom if we are going to live in a free society. The Patriot Act is an attempt to find a balance between personal freedom versus the freedom and security of society as a whole. Have abuses of the Patriot Act occurred? I'm sure there have been some and those abuses should be publicized and corrected. On the other hand the Patriot Act has been one of the tools the government has used to prevent terrorist acts against United States. Unfortunately the extent to which it has helped in preventing terrorist acts can't be fully publicized. We should be very diligent in creating new laws that extend the governments ability to curtail personal freedoms. We constantly need to be checking the balance between security and freedom with the understanding that we are never going to be 100% secure or 100% free to do whatever we please as individuals. I don't want a police state, which is one of the reasons I defend the 2nd amendment. But I also don't want to allow terrorist an open door to plan and execute terrorist acts with impunity by taking advantage of many of the freedoms we have in the U.S. that they don't have in their own countries.
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seekeroftruth Original500© Member
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very good questions! I have to go do a radio show but I'll get back to you later this afternoon. Keep asking questions. In Christ Seeker
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wallstreetman Original500© Member Patriot
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Bush is the perfect example of someone trying to fool God!
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