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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > The Christian's Straight and Narrow Path > agnostic/atheist |
| Moderated by: JustifiedByFaith, 1jester | Page: 1 2   |
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seekeroftruth Original500© Member
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I believe agnostic/atheist are people of much faith. What do you think?? Do you have to have alot of faith of be an atheist or....
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muddawber Guardian1000© Member 
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seekeroftruth wrote: I believe agnostic/atheist are people of much faith. What do you think?? Do you have to have alot of faith of be an atheist or.... I think it takes a lot of faith to believe there is no God...just like it takes more faith, I think, to believe in evolution rather than creation.
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member  Seeing through the lies...
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My opinion is that no one dis-believes in a Creator. I venture to say that it is a matter of constant suppression of those things He shows them. Those things He reveals to them about Him through His creation.
 Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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seekeroftruth Original500© Member
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: My opinion is that no one dis-believes in a Creator. I venture to say that it is a matter of constant suppression of those things He shows them. Those things He reveals to them about Him through His creation. Yes I think you are right on this. The bible says that too. I think that people who say they don't believe are stiffed necked and are figuratively shaking their fists at God.
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation 
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: My opinion is that no one dis-believes in a Creator. I venture to say that it is a matter of constant suppression of those things He shows them. Those things He reveals to them about Him through His creation. As you might expect, I have a different perspective.  Faith is situational. If you're born into a certain environment, you have faith, because that's the way things are explained to you. If you're born into another type of environment, where science is given as the explanation for phenomenon, then you won't have faith. A person of faith looks up into the sky and says, "God created that." A person who doesn't have faith looks up and says, "I don't know how that got there, but it must have gotten there by natural means, since everything else I've ever seen has a natural explanation." See, it's really just a matter of perspective.
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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seekeroftruth Original500© Member
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the definition of science is: observable, measurable and reputable. Could you give me just one bit of science that supports macroevolution?
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation
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seekeroftruth wrote: the definition of science is: observable, measurable and reputable. Could you give me just one bit of science that supports macroevolution? Sure.  We know, from direct observation, how genes are inherited. Genetic studies of different species through time have demonstrated linkages between species. The change in species over time directly correlates to their genetic patterns. But I think you're missing the point of what I was saying. JBF was saying that agnosticism/atheism requires a closing of one's eyes to creation, a willful ignorance of what one "knows" about the existence of God through his creation. I think that's wrong. I think it's a matter of one's environment. If you're brought up to accept supernatural explanations for creation, and no one successfully challenges that idea, that's what you'll believe. Conversely, if you're brought up to believe naturalistic explanations for creation, and no one successfully challenges that idea, that's what you'll believe. But I'd like to clarify one point: It's certainly possible to accept naturalistic explanations for the universe while still believing in God. It all depends on what your view of God's role in the universe is. Edited to Add: I'd like to correct your definition of science a bit. There's such a thing as theoretical science, where scientists propose explanations that fit observable data, and then wait for the confirming mathematical data to roll in. This is what happens in areas like cosmology, where the processes being explained (e.g., the formation of black holes, the Big Bang, etc.) aren't directly observable. With the definition you just used, Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking wouldn't be considered scientists.
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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seekeroftruth Original500© Member
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Brian wrote: seekeroftruth wrote:the definition of science is: observable, measurable and reputable. Could you give me just one bit of science that supports macroevolution? We know, from direct observation, how genes are inherited. Genetic studies of different species through time have demonstrated linkages between species. Huh??? Don't you have anything better then that?? What Genetic studies? How long did this time take?? What linkages?? Don't let me down now! My Parents believe in evolution but I don't so that's not true in my case. I would still like some examples of progressive mutations. Do you have any??
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation
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seekeroftruth wrote: Brian wrote:We know, from direct observation, how genes are inherited. Genetic studies of different species through time have demonstrated linkages between species. The change in species over time directly correlates to their genetic patterns. Here's one example of the kind of study I'm talking about. (This one deals with the evolution of color vision from earlier primates to humans.) There are numerous others, including the one that found the mitochondrial DNA ancestor of all humans, who lived some 200,000 years ago, known as "Mitochondrial Eve". (That's not the link to the Mitochondrial Eve study. I haven't been able to find the full text to that online.) There's also this one: [url=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15640092?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=4&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed]Molecular anhropology and the origin of modern human[/url]. As far as, "How long did this time take?", could you clarify the question? The linkages I'm talking about are the DNA links between species that can be mapped over time. If by "progressive mutations" you mean those mutations that confered a benefit, you should do a search on the forum. PMH and I have discussed this topic quite a bit. As far as your beliefs versus the beliefs of your parents: As I said, it depends on whether or not the beliefs you're born into are successfully challenged or not. A person's beliefs are certainly changeable. All I'm saying is that a person's beliefs default to what they've grown up with, and are not necessarily volitional in a conscious sense.
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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Saint Forum-Blogger© Pioneer100© Member  Polymath
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I believe agnostic/atheist are people of much faith. By definition, people who can't believe in the intangible like agnostics and atheists can't have faith.
A^2 + B^2 = C^2 |
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation
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Saint wrote: I believe agnostic/atheist are people of much faith. I'm not sure that atheists and agnostics should be lumped together like that, though. Agnostics are at least saying that they don't know for sure. (Incidentally, a lot of atheists simply say they don't believe in God, rather than they know that no God exists. Not exactly the same thing...)
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Seeing through the lies...
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Brian wrote: I'm not sure that atheists and agnostics should be lumped together like that, though. Agnostics are at least saying that they don't know for sure. Brian, According to the bible, atheists and agnostics are lumped together... "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse..." Romans 1:18-20 
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Popeyesays Guardian1000© Member
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It seems to me that atheists are often just as 'charismatic' and 'proselytizing' as any group of believers in God. When one comes down to it believing there is NO God is just as much based in faith as opposed to reason as any religious group seeking new members. Regards, Scott
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: Brian wrote:I'm not sure that atheists and agnostics should be lumped together like that, though. Agnostics are at least saying that they don't know for sure. Absolutely true, JBF. But that doesn't mean they self-identify as equivalent. An atheist will probably tell you an agnostic is someone who hasn't fully made up his/her mind yet. And an agnostic will tell you that an atheist is way too sure of themselves.  You can look at it this way: An agnostic is someone who doesn't know there is a God (or doesn't believe there is one), but is open to the debate. An atheist is someone who doesn't think any such thing as God exists, and doesn't think it's worth discussing seriously.
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation
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Popeyesays wrote: It seems to me that atheists are often just as 'charismatic' and 'proselytizing' as any group of believers in God. That depends on how you're defining "God", and what you'd accept as evidence, doesn't it?
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > The Christian's Straight and Narrow Path > agnostic/atheist | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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