Enjoy the free Classified Ads! 24HourForums.com Home Thank you for supporting us. Click to enter Posts Of The Day.
Recent Posts Search by username
Search Contact Us Login Register
When logged in, click this to open up the Jumper for easier navigation. Click for details on our forum system in the Forum Center.
Click to be shown the (Top 10 and Management) forums listed in the top section of the site. Click to be shown the (Supported) forums listed in the middle section of the site. Click to be shown the (UnSupported) forums listed in the bottom section of the site. Click to learn about, or pay for, forum Sponsorships. Click for the Official Forum Voting Poll. VOTE! Click for info on owning a forum here at 24.

24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > The Christian's Straight and Narrow Path > Faith and deliverance

Share this topic...
Digg!  - Digg   Slashdot  - SlashDot    - del.icio.us    - Reddit    - StumbleUpon   - Facebook

 Moderated by: JustifiedByFaith, 1jester Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2   

New Topic
Reply
Print
AuthorPost
JustifiedByFaith
Pioneer100© Member

Playing to a different drummer
Joined: 
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA
Posts: 8623
MyResume: 
MyJob: 
MyForum: Politics & Religion
MyLove: Not of this world...
MyWish: 
MyFile: [Download]
MyIntro: 
MySex: Male
Status:  Offline
MyPOTD: 
Return to topBottom of page
 Posted: 04:00 am

Quote
Reply
PM
Alert
voters: 0      




There's a saying. If you want someone to love you forever, buy a dog, feed it and keep it around.
Dick Dale

Ads appear if not logged in.

Brian
Grand Poobah of Moderation


Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 4364
MyResume: 
MyJob: 
MyForum: 
MyLove: 
MyWish: 
MyFile: 
MyIntro: 
MySex: 
Status:  Offline
MyPOTD: 
Return to topBottom of page
 Posted: 05:54 pm

Quote
Reply
PM
Alert
voters: 0      




"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last."

-- "A Long December", Counting Crows
Millennium
Original500© Member
 

Joined: 
Location: Thank You Frank, For The Forums.
Posts: 1607
MyResume: 
MyJob: 
MyForum: 
MyLove: America
MyWish: 
MyFile: [Download]
MyIntro: 
MySex: 
Status:  Offline
MyPOTD: 
Return to topBottom of page
 Posted: 06:31 pm

Quote
Reply
PM
Alert
voters: 0      

1jester
Pioneer100© Member

Pilgrim Sojourner
Joined: 
Location: Third Stone From The Sun
Posts: 1515
MyResume: 
MyJob: 
MyForum: Straight & Narrow Path
MyLove: The LORD our God
MyWish: 
MyFile: 
MyIntro: 
MySex: 
Status:  Offline
MyPOTD: 
Return to topBottom of page
 Posted: 05:36 pm

Quote
Reply
PM
Alert
voters: 0      
It seems we have lost quite a few good posts. Frank, can you bring them back?




Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. -Matthew 22:37-39

Ads appear if not logged in.

Brian
Grand Poobah of Moderation


Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 4364
MyResume: 
MyJob: 
MyForum: 
MyLove: 
MyWish: 
MyFile: 
MyIntro: 
MySex: 
Status:  Offline
MyPOTD: 
Return to topBottom of page
 Posted: 06:48 pm

Quote
Reply
PM
Alert
voters: 0      
Aethelred wrote: Brian wrote: 1jester wrote: This is something that never ceases to amaze me, and troubles me deep down inside.  I want to see as many people as possible in Heaven.  I do not wish to see even one person die the second death, though I know it will be.  Why do so many people refuse to accept Christ?  It's not like they don't know of Him.  Billions have heard of Him, yet very few accept Him as their Saviour.  Why is this?
Please excuse me if this was a question only to be answered by believers.  As a non-believer, I'd like to give you my perspective on it.  This should not, of course, be construed as an explanation of all disbelief everywhere.  I come at it from a very specific set of  circumstances.

The biggest hurdle there is to belief, in my case, is the whole idea that an amniscient, omnipotent being would create the world as it is (or allow the world to become what it is).  See, it's fairly easy to describe the things that human beings do to each other as a result of original sin in a fallen world.  What's not so easy to do is to explain the bad things that happen to people that have nothing to do with free will.  There are some things in life that just happen, without anyone in particular wanting them to. 

Anything that can't be blamed on a human being is God's responsibility, plain and simple.  When a child dies of cancer or an older person dies a slow death to Alzheimer's Disease, if God runs the show, then that's God's work.  Multiply that by all the other tragic things that happen to people in their lives, and you get a sense of why some of us have trouble believing there's a benevolent, omnipotent deity running things.


Good post Brian.  I appreciate hearing what honest, thinking non-believers think.

You seem to be thinking that the universe is in some ways unjust and that a just God would not allow such an unjust universe.  Am I right?


Hi, Aethelred.

I'm going to recreate the essense of what I responded before, since I don't think there's any way to bring back posts that were lost when the server went screwy.

I think you've got the bulk of my objection substantially correct, but I wouldn't necessarily attach the concept of an "unjust universe".  In the conception of God as an omnipotent, omniscient being, "the universe" doesn't carry out actions.  God does.  Earth doesn't spin because of gravitational forces.  Earth spins because God caused gravitational forces which caused the Earth to spin.  A plane doesn't crash because an engine failed.  A plane crashes because God caused that engine to fail at that particular time and place where it would crash.

Basically, the objection is this:  An omnipotent God controls the whole show (allowing for the exception of free will, of course -- I'm not saying God causes people to do things, necessarily).  If such a God exists, I only see a two different possibilities:

1)  He's incompetent.

2) He's capricious.

An omnipotent God can't be incompetent, and a benevolent God can't be capricious.  That's the philosophical and moral problem I have.




"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last."

-- "A Long December", Counting Crows

 Current time is 05:09 pm		Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2   
24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > The Christian's Straight and Narrow Path > Faith and deliverance


Site Supporters
Posts Of The Day Mock Forums WowClassic



Themes and most mods done in collaboration with: WowClassic - powerful forum software with the best support service.
We are partners with Forum Owner Services
Powered by WowBB 1.7 - Copyright © 2003-2006 Aycan Gulez