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24HourForums.com > Supported Forums > Shimmy's Things On Wheels > 2 Local gas stations selling E85 fuel 85% Ethanol |
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Marie5656 Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member  Just hanging out
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Is E85 worth the price at the pump?  Reported by: Meghan Backus Friday, Feb 22, 2008 @06:49pm EST  E85, or fuel with 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline, is becoming more popular as local gas stations are starting to sell the more environmentally friendly fuel.“It's cheaper,” said Florence Lourette. “Anything that's cheaper."Drivers like Lourette are getting desperate to pay less at the pump. That's why she fueled up on E85 Friday morning without even knowing if her own SUV was compatible.E85 is going for about 70 cents less than regular gasoline now, but in the long run, drivers using E85 could see a bigger dent in their bank accounts.“Typically what we see is anywhere between 10 to 15 percent less mileage per gallon with using E85,” said Dr. Nabil Nasr, the director of the Center for Integrated Manufacturing Studies at RIT.Fewer miles per gallon can add up quickly. According to the 2008 Fuel Economy Guide online, drivers who put E85 into their vehicles this year will pay more than those who use regular gas.(The following figures are based on gas prices from the week of January 16, 2008. They can be found at http://www.fueleconomy.gov)For example, someone driving 15,000 miles in a Chevrolet Impala would spend $2,250 if they fueled up on E85 all year. If they used gas, they would pay $2,095.A person driving the same distance in a Dodge Durango 2WD would pay almost $600 more than someone paying for regular unleaded.Nasr says E85 poses other problems. It is more corrosive to your engine than regular gasoline, and it takes more energy to produce it.“Extracting oil from earth - it's a process that has been refined for many years,” he said. “Ethanol, because you are also working on the raw materials side, consume a lot of energy."In New York State, ethanol is generally made from corn crops which poses another roadblock.“If we use all the land that's available to us today and for production of ethanol,” Nasr said, “we're still going to have a problem."But Nasr says E85 is definitely a step in the right direction, and a fuel like it could eventually end U.S. dependence on foreign oil and limited resources. At RIT, researchers are working to make the ethanol-producing process more efficient, and they are working on fuel cells and hydrogen-powered vehicles.Nasr says -- and others agree -- it is cleaner for the environment and worth considering despite the cost.“A renewable fuel is worth paying a little bit of extra for,” said one driver.As for Lourette…"I guess I better look into it a little further!"<< Back
 
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Erinna1112 Original500© Member  Witty clever title pending
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Besides all of that... Ethanol production and consumption uses *more* fossil fuel than gasoline production and consumption. Corn must be planted, fertilized, cultivated, harvested, transported, and processed - all of which use engines that consume fossil fuels. This means that ethanol produces more greenhouse gases than does gasoline, and has a greater carbon footprint. Ethanol results in a net energy *loss*. It takes more energy to manufacture a gallon of ethanol than that same gallon produces. The use of corn for ethanol reduces its availability in the food supply. This has the effect of increasing prices for everything from beef (just what do you think cows eat, anyway?) to milk. If every single ear of corn produced in the United States last year were converted to ethanol production, it would replace less than ten percent of the fuel used. Hardly a method to "end US dependence on foreign oil." E85, as pointed out in the article, is extremely corrosive. It cannot be stored in existing gasoline storage tanks without compromising the safety of those tanks. But you can bet your bottom gallon that someone, somewhere that buys ethanol is going to think that this doesn't apply to him, and use a gasoline tank to store ethanol. Ethanol also cannot be dispensed into your vehicle using existing pump technology. Corn ethanol would not be a viable product in a strictly market-driven economy. It is viable now only because it is heavily subsidized by your tax dollars and mine. There is, however, a crop that would make efficient, less corrosive ethanol - sugar cane. But, since the biggest producer of cane ethanol is Brazil, the farmers lobby here in the US is putting up roadblocks and encouraging prohibitive tarrifs on Brazilian cane. IMO, the best way to solve the energy crisis is to remove government subsidies and restrictions and let the markets come up with the solutions. The financial incentive will be there. Another problem with the resolution to this impending problem is that the American consumer wants one single magic pill solution that will cost him no effort and no money. It's not going to be free - it's not even going to be cheap. It's going to be darned expensive at first, until the technology develops. And it's not going to be one single solution. This problem will take a combination of conservation and new technology...but nobody wants to be inconvenienced by it. Until that mindset changes, nothing else will.
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bjork73 Pioneer100© Member  Official Forum (T)reasoner
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   Corn ethanol is one of the biggest economic and environmental red herrings I've ever seen. Hyrdrogen-powered cars are, at least for the time being and far into the forseeable future, are also a big joke. Plug-in hybrids and fully electric cars can be made NOW, will only get better-performing and more efficient over time as production increases and improves, and would substantially reduce petrol and overall energy usage. However, it would help significantly if Americans would lost their lust for cars that are much larger and more powerful than they would ever need (thankfully, rising gas prices have begun to do this already). Furthermore, the U.S. needs major investment in public transportation, rail transport of both people and goods, and (possibly) "smart roads" that would use wireless/radio signals to regulate traffic and speed, especially on highly used freeways. On a related note, the documentary Who Killed the Electric Car? provides for interesting and very worthwhile viewing.
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shimmy Original500© Member 
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The E85 is more corrosive, so anyone that thinks that they can use it in their cars, have another thing coming. The fuel tank on many newer models made of type of plastic, so you can have an issue right there. Also the fuel lines, fuel filter, the fuel pump body is made of aluminum and some type of plastic again. Too many parts of the fuel system can pose a problem later on.
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation 
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I kind of like the idea of hydrogen cars, and I hope they're practical someday. I don't know how much of a net plus a plug-in car is. Doesn't generating that electricity at the plug level require fossil fuels, also, in the current infrastructure?  I think you need a clean way to generate that electricity in the first place (e.g., solar or wind) before you see an environmental benefit. The goals of energy independence and ecological friendliness are very distinct. I suspect the energy independence part will be much easier to achieve in the short-term.
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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24HourForums.com > Supported Forums > Shimmy's Things On Wheels > 2 Local gas stations selling E85 fuel 85% Ethanol | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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