|
||||||
 |
Recent Posts | Search by username | |
Contact Us | |
Login | |
Register |
 |
 |
|||||
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
|
24HourForums.com > Supported Forums > Lord Marcovan's Treasure Territory > shipwreck treasure yields 17 tons of colonial-era coins |
| Moderated by: Lord Marcovan | Page:   1 2 3   |
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Author | Post | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
24HourNut Administrator  Body pillows rock!
|
  |
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Wow, what a battle this will be ...
 The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Lady Cop Pioneer100© Member 
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
24HourNut wrote: Wow, what a battle this will be ...yep, it's going to make jarndyce v. jarndyce look like a walk in the park. you won't be getting your cute little paws on one of those coins soon. 
 |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Ya got that right!
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Just hadda move this topic here. 
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
24HourNut wrote: Just hadda move this topic here. yup--- this one is DEFINITELY a thread for LM's forum!
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Makarovii Original500© Member  Privyet tovarishi!
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
What do you guys think of keeping all these coins clashing on each other in these containers? I know they aren't pristine but do they need that many more scratches? Or are there just so many it won't make a difference?
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Lord Marcovan Original500© Member  Robertson Shinnick
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This one's been posted all over Collectors Universe, both on the coin and treasure hunting forums. I must confess I haven't followed the story much, though when National Geographic or somebody does a nice article on it with lots of photos (or a TV special), I will probably get drawn in.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member  Jesus...above every other name
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
That shipwreck find makes my MS65 Carson City Morgans about as valuable as the penny's I used to cast into the lake's when I was a kid....
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Lady Cop Pioneer100© Member
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Florida treasurer hunter's ship seized MADRID -- (AP) -- Spanish Civil Guards on Thursday heightened a battle over a $500 million treasure of gold and silver coins from a shipwreck when they seized a vessel belonging to a Tampa-based company. The Ocean Alert was seized about 9 a.m. three miles off the southeastern coast and taken to the nearby port of Algeciras to be searched, the Civil Guard said. The Civil Guard acted on an order of a Spanish judge who in June instructed police to seize two vessels of Odyssey Marine Exploration if they left the British colony of Gibraltar -- on Spain's southern tip -- and entered Spanish waters. Odyssey, a treasure hunting company, said it had found the Colonial-era shipwreck on May 18, and the coins have been flown to the United States from Gibraltar. Spain filed claims last month in a U.S. federal court over Odyssey's find, arguing that if the shipwrecked vessel was Spanish or was removed from its waters, the treasure belongs to Spain. Odyssey insists the shipwreck was outside any country's territorial waters, but has not given its exact location or the ship's name. According to a release from the company, Odyssey has provided a 109-page affidavit to authorities in the Spanish federal government, the Junta de Andalucia, the United Kingdom, Gibraltar and the United States detailing Odyssey's activities concerning the discovery. ''We were pleased to provide this information to the interested government officials to help clear up any confusion that has been created by inaccurate media reports,'' Odyssey co-founder Greg Stemm said in a news release. ``We always attempt to work with appropriate governments on shipwreck projects in which they may have an interest and look forward to addressing any issues of claims or legal jurisdiction related to the [shipwreck site] in the proper venue, which is U.S. federal court.'' In Britain, the find generated press reports that Odyssey had salvaged the wreck of the long-sought British vessel Merchant Royal, which sank in bad weather off England in 1641. Odyssey has not confirmed or denied these reports.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
shirohniichan Original500© Member  Obscurius per obscurum
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
In Britain, the find generated press reports that Odyssey had salvaged the wreck of the long-sought British vessel Merchant Royal, which sank in bad weather off England in 1641. Odyssey has not confirmed or denied these reports. I don't think it will take too long for the case to make its way through the courts simply because so much money is at stake. If the wreck is indeed British, Odyssey will just have to show it is outside of Spanish territorial waters to satisfy the Spanish judge's claim.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Lady Cop Pioneer100© Member
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
October 17, 2007 Treasure seekers run the gauntlet over world’s biggest haul of gold  Thomas Catan on the Odyssey Explorer, Gibraltar A Spanish warship threatened to open fire on American treasure hunters yesterday as they tried to flee Gibraltar in the battle for a haul of gold and silver coins estimated to be worth half a billion dollars. Amid rough seas, The Times watched from aboard the Odyssey Explorer as Spanish Civil Guards made two unsuccessful attempts to board the ship minutes after it set sail. However, high waves and driving rain made the operation impossible, prompting them to force the ship to port instead. “Under the threat of deadly force, we have had to turn the ship around and proceed to Algeciras,” Aladar Nesser, an official from Odyssey Marien Exploration, said as the ship was escorted to port. The company claimed the ship was in international waters outside Gibraltar when the Spanish cut her off with a Corvette warship, a police patrol boat and a high-powered dinghy. Spain claims those waters are within its territorial boundaries. Spanish officers served notice that they were investigating Odyssey’s suspected plunder of underwater archaeological sites and confiscated millions of pounds worth of evidence, including computer hard drives and the company’s multimillion-dollar underwater robot. Sterling Vorus, the ship’s captain, was arrested for “grave disobedience” after refusing to let the police on board, and taken into custody. The operation was the latest skirmish in an international fight over what could be the greatest underwater treasure yet discovered. The haul of 500,000 coins has pitted a pugnacious company owned by Bob Hope’s former public relations man against a Spanish Government enraged at what it views as modern-day piracy. It has also set the archaeological community – which views Odyssey’s profit-driven scans of the ocean floor with suspicion – against commercial salvage firms, whose deep pockets and high-tech submersibles are making it possible to explore underwater wrecks like never before. And it has reignited Spanish anger over ownership of the Rock of Gibraltar, the tiny British colony at the centre of a 300-year tug-of-war between two former maritime powers. The fight over the mytery shipwreck began earlier this year when Odyssey secured the consent of the British and Spanish Governments to dig-up the HMS Sussex, an 80-gun warship lost off the coast of Gibraltar in 1694. Odyssey says the wreck may contain coins worth billions of dollars today. But instead of the Sussex, Odyssey announced in May that it had found a huge treasure in a different wreck at a site it codenamed Black Swan – and that it had already spirited it away to Tampa, Florida. Odyssey says that it acted entirely legally and only after the Spanish Government refused to reach a deal over how to share any discoveries in area. It says that the wreck was in international waters, around 180 nautical miles west of Gibraltar, but it will not say exactly where, claiming that such information could lead to looting. Spain suspects that the wreck at Black Swan is a Spanish galleon called Nuestra Señora de las Mercedes, sunk by the British fleet off Portugal in 1804. Court papers show that at least some of the coins recovered are Spanish, leading officials to believe that Odyssey recovered a Spanish treasure from a Spanish ship – even if it was outside its territorial waters. Madrid’s US lawyer James Goold accuses Odyssey of engaging in an illegal game of hide-and-seek and has filed suit against the company in Tampa seeking the return of the treasure, as well as making claims on two other wrecks found by Odyssey. Spain also accuses Odyssey of acting in a deceptive manner by playing down the value of its find until it had been spirited to the US. In its original export licenses filed with the Government of Gibraltar, Odyssey described its cargo as “encrusted clumps of silver coins in a corroded condition”, valuing the coins at $2.5 million, or $5 apiece. By June, however, the company said the coins had been valued at up to $500 million, or $1,000 each, sending the company’s shares sharply higher. Nick Bruyer, and expert who examined a sample of the coins, described the haul as “unprecedented”. “I don’t know of anything equal or comparable to it,” he said. Odyssey, meanwhile, has sued Spain for financial losses caused by the detention of its other boat, the Ocean Alert, in an almost identical manoeuvre in July. It is also seeking compensation for losses caused by the “obstruction of its operations” while its ships were stuck in Gibraltar . Under the principle of “finders keepers”, admiralty courts tend to award the bulk a treasure to those who raise it from the deep. But it is not always so. Spain has dug in its heels and any legal battle could be protracted. Meanwhile, Odyssey officials say that an undisclosed portion of the treasure still lies in the deep, protected only by its silence.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Wow, what drama ... I say encourage private firms to dig up stuff so more history can be enjoyed by all ... verses FAR fewer discoveries.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
shirohniichan Original500© Member Obscurius per obscurum
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Court papers show that at least some of the coins recovered are Spanish, leading officials to believe that Odyssey recovered a Spanish treasure from a Spanish ship – even if it was outside its territorial waters. That's not a very convincing argument. Much of the specie circulating in the American colonies and all over the world was Spanish and Spanish colonial. Just because lots of silver 8 reales or gold escudos were recovered does not mean that the ship was Spanish or the wreck in Spanish waters. For example, the Mohawk Valley hoard in the US contained not only US bust coins, but also Spanish 2 and 4 reales coins. That did not make the New York discovery "Spanish".
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Lady Cop Pioneer100© Member
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Spain Claims Sunken Treasure from Florida Deep-Sea Explorers Thursday, May 08, 2008 MADRID, Spain — Spain formally laid claim Thursday to a shipwreck that yielded a US$500 million treasure, saying it has proof the vessel was Spanish. Officials demanded the return of the booty recovered last year by a U.S. deep-sea exploration firm, saying the 19th-century shipwreck at the heart of the dispute is the Nuestra Senora de las Mercedes — a Spanish warship sunk by the British navy southwest of Portugal in 1804 with more than 200 people on board. Tampa, Fla.-based Odyssey Marine Exploration had announced in May 2007 that it had discovered the wreck in the Atlantic — and its cargo of 500,000 silver coins and other artifacts worth an estimated US$500 million. At the time, Odyssey said it did not know which ship it was, and flew the treasures back to Tampa without Spain's knowledge, from an airport on the British colony of Gibraltar on Spain's southwestern tip. The Spanish government filed evidence in a Tampa federal court to support its claim. "We are talking about the remains of a Spanish navy vessel and the human remains of Spanish naval servicemen who died on board which have been illegally disturbed," Culture Ministry Director General Jose Jimenez said. "It is the property of the Spanish navy, government and people, and we want it all back," said Adm. Teodoro de Leste Contreras, who runs a naval museum owned by the ministry. Washington-based lawyer James Goold, representing the Spanish government in the case, said U.S. Judge Mark Pizzo will convene the two parties to review the case before deciding who gets to keep the treasure. Goold said at a Madrid news conference that he expected Odyssey would keep "not a penny" of the salvage. Odyssey officials maintain there isn't enough evidence to prove the vessel is the Mercedes, mainly because there is no hull. They said they have found only cargo from a shipwreck, not the actual vessel, according to a statement the company released Thursday. Odyssey officials said they are surprised the Spanish government has conclusively said "the "Black Swan" treasure is from the Mercedes after viewing site photomosaics and video that show no hull, ballast pile, keel or vessel, and only a statistically insignificant sample of the coins from the site," the statement said. Spain argues that the entire treasure should be returned because naval vessels remain the property of the nation that flagged them, regardless of where they lie, under the principle of sovereign immunity. Goold said Spain's evidence — based on material provided by Odyssey under court order — proved the ship and cargo definitely were Spanish property. "Spain has not abandoned or otherwise relinquished in any way its ownership of Mercedes," Spain's petition said. If the coins are found to be from the Mercedes, Odyssey officials said "it is up to the U.S. District Court to determine the final disposition of the "Black Swan" treasure," according to the statement. Naval and coin experts say they have proof that the treasure, now held in a warehouse in Tampa, came from the Nuestra Senora de las Mercedes. The coins included gold doubloons, or "pieces of eight," minted in 1803 in Lima, Peru, bearing the image of Spain's King Carlos IV, ministry coin expert Carmen Marcos said. The Mercedes exploded and sank in a naval battle as it sailed back to Spain from South America. Spain's claim said artifacts on the seabed, their distribution and other characteristics, as well as artifacts taken by Odyssey, "further identify the site as the remains of Mercedes." Odyssey also said the ship was probably the Mercedes after Pizzo last month forced the company to disclose information on the salvage, including the identity of the ship and its location.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Check you out with the great update post! 
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
24HourForums.com > Supported Forums > Lord Marcovan's Treasure Territory > shipwreck treasure yields 17 tons of colonial-era coins | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Site Supporters | |||
|---|---|---|---|
| Posts Of The Day | Mock Forums | WowClassic | |
Themes and most mods done in collaboration with: WowClassic - powerful forum software with the best support service.
We are partners with Forum Owner Services
Powered by - Copyright © 2003-2006 Aycan Gulez
We are partners with Forum Owner Services
Powered by - Copyright © 2003-2006 Aycan Gulez