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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > Aethelred's History Chamber > Where and when did civilization start? |
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Aethelred Pioneer100© Member  Ye Olde Dead King
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I thought the beginning of civilization might be as good a place as any for this forum’s first thread. Here are two points to keep in mind while considering this topic: -All the facts are not in. It is possible that some as yet unknown civilization may be discovered that pre-dates know early civilizations. -Civilizations seem to have come about in various geographic locations at about the same time and independent of each other. Having stated that, at the current time Sumeria is the best candidate for the title of “first civilization.” Around 4500 BC a group of non-Semitic people known as proto-Euphrateans moved into Mesopotamia. They established industries such as metalworking and pottery making and drained marshes for use in farming. The proto-Euphrateans were replaced in the area by about 3500 BC by a Semitic people who seem to have come from what is modern Turkey, where they lived in the oldest know villages. These people invented writing, the wheel and government by about 3000 BC. Last edited on 02:01 pm by Aethelred |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member  Without Jesus we fall short...
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Aethelred wrote: I thought the beginning of civilization might be as good a place as any for this forum’s first thread. First of all congratulations on your member owned forum. History is facinating to me. Especially the unknowns. What peoples are prior to Egyptians I don't know? With the extreeme variables and unknowns in carbon dating, what other means can we verify the first civilization or does it end up simply an educated guess?
 Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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moguitar Guest
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I read about a city on the upper Nile in Egypt that pre-dated the 3,500 BC Egyptian Civilization by thousands of years. The general agreement among archaeologists is that civilization was 10,000 years old with the first farming and permanent villages--is what I have read.
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JasonAMrtn Original500© Member
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Carbon dating is highly inaccurate and can be easily misread and misinterpreted. I wouldn't trust it... I'm gonna have to say that civilization started when Adam and Eve left the garden around 4,000 B.C.
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Britt Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member  Learning Contentment
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JasonAMrtn wrote: Carbon dating is highly inaccurate and can be easily misread and misinterpreted. I wouldn't trust it... I'm gonna have to say that civilization started when Adam and Eve left the garden around 4,000 B.C. A naive assessment, but each to his own. Do you also deny the fossil record? Perhaps you throw that in the bag with your conspiracy theories as something planted by scientists funded with Rockefeller monies? Moguitar wrote: I read about a city on the upper Nile in Egypt that pre-dated the 3,500 BC Egyptian Civilization by thousands of years. The general agreement among archaeologists is that civilization was 10,000 years old with the first farming and permanent villages--is what I have read. I have also read this. There are settlements beneath Mahenjo-Daro (Indus Valley, present-day Pakistan), near Machu Picchu in Peru, and a settlement in northern China that are contemporaries of this Egyptian settlement. Some archaeologists theorize that the Sphinx in Egypt is nearly 10,000 years old, suggesting it is a remnant from this earlier civilization. It is fascinating to consider these findings. My sister-in-law worked in eastern Pakistan studying sites beneath the Mohenjo-Daro settlement. It was quite sophisticated with granaries, a series of sewage ways, and spring water directed to all living quarters. It is amazing to realize human civilization has existed far longer than we originally thought, and that much of it is so ancient that the traces of it's existence have been almost entirely obliterated. Last edited on 07:17 pm by Britt "All that you have is your soul." --Tracy Chapman |
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Aethelred Pioneer100© Member Ye Olde Dead King
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JasonAMrtn wrote: Carbon dating is highly inaccurate and can be easily misread and misinterpreted. I wouldn't trust it... I'm gonna have to say that civilization started when Adam and Eve left the garden around 4,000 B.C. Here are a few things to consider with regard to C-14 dating Jason: -C-14 only works on organic material and has a half-life of +/- 5730 years -C-14 does not date an organic item, it provides an estimated date range. I would not go so far as to say it is a "highly inaccurate" dating method, but there is a high amount of uncertainty with any date suggested by C-14 alone. Carbon contamination and environmental effects are two areas that can lead to an inaccurate date range. -C-14 dating works because during it's life an organism will absorbe three types of carbon [size=isotopes, C-12, C-13 and C-14]. When that organism dies it stops taking carbon in and the C-14 begins to decay (as mentioned above at a half-life of +/-5730 years), while C-12 and C-13 are stable [size=isotopes. By making a comparison of levels of C-12 vs. C-14 you can reach conclusions about the age of an organic artifact. For example say you find a wooden artifact in a tomb that has half the level of C-14 as it does C-12, you would be able to date the tomb to around 3723 BC. ]
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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I wasn't aware we WERE civilized...
Armed with the power of Thy name nothing can ever hurt me, and with Thy love in my heart all the world's afflictions can in no wise alarm me. |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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sirlamre wrote: I wasn't aware we WERE civilized... 
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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JasonAMrtn wrote: Carbon dating is highly inaccurate and can be easily misread and misinterpreted. I wouldn't trust it... I'm gonna have to say that civilization started when Adam and Eve left the garden around 4,000 B.C. Well -- I agree with Aethelred-- Any system of interpretation can be highly inaccurate and easily misused and misunderstood The six-thousand year bit in the Bible is probably the absolute classic-- not believed any longer by 90% of Christians, since the interpretive mistakes made in the Dark Ages that led to this have long been corrected in the teachings of many great seminarians from well established theological seminaries around the world in all denominations of Christianity. That being said, are you saying that what Adam and Eve did BEFORE leaving the Garden was completely uncivilized? I'd say that (if literally true) what went on in the Garden PRIOR to the famed incident with the apple probably was the ONLY time in history that mankind has been civilized! And that civilization ENDED with the apple, not began with it as Jason states.
Armed with the power of Thy name nothing can ever hurt me, and with Thy love in my heart all the world's afflictions can in no wise alarm me. |
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Aethelred Pioneer100© Member Ye Olde Dead King
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sirlamre wrote: I wasn't aware we WERE civilized... Speak for yourself! 
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Aethelred Pioneer100© Member Ye Olde Dead King
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Well -- I agree with Aethelred-- I'll need to delete that! 
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Britt Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member Learning Contentment
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Aethelred wrote: Well -- I agree with Aethelred--
"All that you have is your soul." --Tracy Chapman |
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Friend Original500© Member  Peaceful In The Morning
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I for one believe in Creation because it offers a beautiful outcome to this struggle we face daily besides I am also one for happy endings. The Bible says dust to dust, we were created from the dust of the earth and where do we find ourselves at the end of our eartly journey, back to dust, unless cremated, then this also turns to dust. If it all happened that we came from the swamp and evolved over millions of years then when the earth was hit with the metator and and the dinosaur was wiped out I assumed that also included caveman and woman. If we came out of the swamp a second time then what determined what would be a human or an animal?
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Britt Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member Learning Contentment
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Friend wrote: I for one believe in Creation because it offers a beautiful outcome to this struggle we face daily besides I am also one for happy endings. The Bible says dust to dust, we were created from the dust of the earth and where do we find ourselves at the end of our eartly journey, back to dust, unless cremated, then this also turns to dust. If it all happened that we came from the swamp and evolved over millions of years then when the earth was hit with the metator and and the dinosaur was wiped out I assumed that also included caveman and woman. If we came out of the swamp a second time then what determined what would be a human or an animal? I have never understood the conflict bewteen Creationists and Evolutionists. Evolution is a well-documented fact. God is a well-documented fact (in my mind, anyway). If God is All-Powerful, then He must be behind the mechanism of evolution. I find this to be a perfectly sane explanation. Evolution is such a simple and elegant mechanism, thus of course Almighty God is the Source of it's function. Why must an Evolutionist deny the evidences of God, and why must a Creationist deny the evidences of evolution and natural selection? People living today have witnessed evolution, particularly biologists studying insects in the rain forests. They have witnessed generations change in response to environmental change. And what determined we would be human or animal? God, of course, as He gave us the faculty to know Him and Love Him. Even in our most primitive state as a species, we had knowledge of God and knew our purpose was unique. I don't understand why this idea is difficult to accept. Even when I was Christian, I knew a process as simple and elegant as evolution HAD to be ordained by God.
"All that you have is your soul." --Tracy Chapman |
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moguitar Guest
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I agree with you, Britt, except humans ARE animals, mammals. God's Laws are inclusive of all Laws of Nature, including physics and biology which includes "evolution". "Civilized" is open to interpretation beyond the 10,000 year old fixed farming settlements with structures meant to be permanent or long term. I think the people who lived cooperatively in moving villages were also civilized, and that was starting perhaps 50,000 years ago. If art makes civilization, then around 35,000 years ago. Maybe it started with the manufacture of the Fender Stratocaster with whammy bar in 1954. Is it tomorrow or just the end of time?   Last edited on 12:50 am by |
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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > Aethelred's History Chamber > Where and when did civilization start? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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