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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Political Matters > What the Hell is Going On in America

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Brian
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 Posted: 06:01 am

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UsedToRide wrote: DNA may be able to prevent "some" wrongful convictions, but it has been shown to me that hiding such evidence (by corrupt prosecutors/cops, etc.,) can keep innocent men in prison for years.  Google the Detroit News and search for Hatcher.  See what you find......
Hi, UTR.

I know you have a lot more experience -- hard-earned -- about the justice system than I do, and for that reason I hold your opinion in high regard.  The part that I'm having trouble understanding, though, is what harm collecting the DNA would do.  I realize that prosecutors/police can hide evidence, etc., but shouldn't it be standard operating procedure that the DNA is at least collected in the first place?  In order to help anyone at all, it's got to be collected first. 

I tried to Google Hatcher and the Detroit News, but I didn't come up with anything that looked like a relevant hit.  Just something about a hockey player...




"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last."

-- "A Long December", Counting Crows

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mgold1967
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 Posted: 03:04 pm

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What happened to the 5th amendment? DNA throws that out. Because your right not to incriminate you self being blabbed out by your DNA. I see both sides and if I was arrested (for a crime I didn't Commit) I would be first in line to offer up my DNA. But the 5th amendment should still stand; no one should be forced to supply their DNA. And if you want to look guilty than refuse to give the sample.

Actually I really don't know where to stand on this issue. I like the fact that DNA takes the guess work out of the mystery. But I do not like giving up one of my original rights from the constitution.
Brian
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 Posted: 03:09 pm

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mgold1967 wrote: What happened to the 5th amendment? DNA throws that out. Because your right not to incriminate you self being blabbed out by your DNA. I see both sides and if I was arrested (for a crime I didn't Commit) I would be first in line to offer up my DNA. But the 5th amendment should still stand; no one should be forced to supply their DNA. And if you want to look guilty than refuse to give the sample.

Actually I really don't know where to stand on this issue. I like the fact that DNA takes the guess work out of the mystery. But I do not like giving up one of my original rights from the constitution.
The 5th amendment still applies.  You can't be compelled to submit to having your blood drawn or your hair sampled for DNA purposes without a court order, just like they need one to get your fingerprints.  But if you use an object and then throw it away, or if you leave your DNA somewhere (e.g., on clothing that the police seized with a search warrant) then you're screwed.  The fact that you discarded the DNA means that it's not private anymore, just like anything else you throw out.




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-- "A Long December", Counting Crows
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 Posted: 03:22 pm

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I see DNA exactly like fingerprints.  You leave them (it) everywhere you go. If the police can take your fingerprints when you are arrested, why not DNA?  What's the difference?




A^2 + B^2 = C^2
mgold1967
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 Posted: 03:24 pm

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Yes, I knew that, just forgot.

But, I think they are creating a database on DNA too, so later they can access the data.

As an example, I am accused of a crime, I am forced to submit a DNA sample, which proves I am not guilty. Then the state is saving my data for future cases. that is where I am not sure about all this. Yes, if you commit the crime than them keeping your DNA seems fair. But if you did not then they should not be able to save your data for future use.

Do you see what I mean. I am against them saving data on innocent people.
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 Posted: 03:41 pm

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mgold1967 wrote: Yes, I knew that, just forgot.

But, I think they are creating a database on DNA too, so later they can access the data.

As an example, I am accused of a crime, I am forced to submit a DNA sample, which proves I am not guilty. Then the state is saving my data for future cases. that is where I am not sure about all this. Yes, if you commit the crime than them keeping your DNA seems fair. But if you did not then they should not be able to save your data for future use.

Do you see what I mean. I am against them saving data on innocent people.
I can see why you'd be against it on principle.  But you can make the same argument about fingerprints (which the government also keep).  If it's okay in one case, it's okay in the other.  And I don't think it's worth the cost to society to throw out both DNA and fingerprints.  The results would be too dire.




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 Posted: 08:26 pm

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Then the state is saving my data for future cases.

Lots of people have to have their fingerprints taken for work. Teachers and people that work with children for example.

They have committed no crime, but the state holds onto that info as well.

Of course the potential for abuse is there. Let's say that an insurance company found out from your DNA that you are prone to cancer and so charged you more for insurance or denied you altogether.

But so far, I haven't seen that kind of abuse.

Knowledge is never, by itself, dangerous. But the uses it's put to can be.

For example, knowing about atoms is no big deal. making an atom bomb is.




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 Posted: 01:35 am

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19th Dallas County inmate freed by DNA
  • Story Highlights
  • Patrick Waller sobs in court as his conviction is overturned
  • Four other Dallas County men cleared by DNA attend hearing
  • The county leads the nation in DNA exonerations, with 19
  • Waller spent 15 years in prison for a crime he did not commit
  • DALLAS, Texas (AP) -- A Texas man who spent more than 15 years in prison after being wrongly convicted of kidnapping and robbery raised both arms skyward and collapsed in his mother's embrace Thursday after being told he was a free man.





    Patrick Waller, along with Innocence Project director John Stickels, rejoices as the decision is announced.




    Patrick Waller's sobs were the only sound at a crowded hearing attended by four other inmates also exonerated by DNA testing.

    "It's all right, honey," Patricia Cunningham told her son. "It's over. You're out of here. You're going home."

    Waller had been behind bars since 1992 for aggravated robbery and aggravated kidnapping stemming from the abduction of a Dallas couple. He was proved innocent by DNA testing late last year.

    "I feel vindicated," said Waller, 38. "I feel thankful. Most of all, I feel blessed."

    His release had been all but certain since last week, when the Dallas County prosecutor's office announced that DNA evidence had cleared Waller and matched the profile of another man.

    That suspect identified his accomplice, and both men subsequently confessed in front of a grand jury, prosecutors said. Neither man is in prison, although one is on parole, and they won't face criminal charges because the statute of limitations has expired.

    Waller is the 19th man in Dallas County since 2001 shown by DNA evidence to be innocent of the crime for which he was convicted. That's more than any county in the nation, according to The Innocence Project in New York, a legal center specializing in wrongful-conviction cases. See how a dozen other exonerated men are doing »

    Four former inmates who collectively served nearly 100 years in prison before being exonerated lined the back wall of the crowded courtroom. The men freed by DNA testing in Dallas County have made a habit of showing up in court for exoneration hearings, and on Thursday they presented Waller with a prepaid cell phone as a gift.

    Their exoneration stories helped Waller during his incarceration.


    Don't Miss
  • Cleared, but never free
  • Struggling to reclaim a life
  • Innocence Project of Texas
"All these guys I just met, I have all their clippings," Waller said. "It always gave me hope that one day it would be my turn."

Waller said he plans to ask the other exonoreated men about the challenges of rejoining society. He is also about 20 credit hours short of a degree.

John Stickels, an Innocence Project of Texas board member and a professor at the University of Texas at Arlington, said he wants to help Waller enroll at the suburban Dallas school.

Waller's ordeal began in 1992 when two men kidnapped a couple and stole several hundred dollars. The men also sexually assaulted the woman after tying up the man, District Attorney Mike Ware said.

Another couple who drove up to the scene were also held at gunpoint. A security guard arrived and scared off the men, who fled in separate cars.

Three of the four people abducted picked Waller in a photo lineup. The fourth later picked him out of a live lineup, Ware said.

Waller maintained his innocence and presented an alibi at trial but was convicted and sentenced to life in prison. He also pleaded guilty to two charges of aggravated kidnapping, fearing more life sentences if he were convicted, said his lawyer, Gary Udashen.

In 2001, Waller requested post-conviction DNA testing under a new state law. The DA's office, then under different leadership, opposed the request, and it was denied by a judge. A second attempt in 2005 was also unsuccessful.

Bill Hill, who was the district attorney when Waller requested his DNA tests, did not return a message from The Associated Press.

Waller's 2007 request, which came after Craig Watkins had taken office as the new district attorney, was granted. Watkins has started a program in which law students, supervised by the Innocence Project of Texas, review old cases in which inmates have requested DNA testing.

In Waller's case, DNA testing was paid for by the Innocence Project of Texas

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 Posted: 08:16 pm

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I don't view take a DNA sample in situations where fingerprints are mandated as a further invasion of privacy. As we learned from the OJ case DNA isn't the end all when it comes to prosecuting someone. It is one tool in determining guilt or innocents.

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