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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Political Matters > Media/Political treatment of Rev. Wright has set a precedent... |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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I find this to be true-- I don't know so much about the black/white thing-- though it may be true that the black religious community may be a little more "angry" - dunno... There are CERTAINLY white GOP politicians who have, both presently and in the past, allied themselves with ministers whose words WOULD inflame most Americans to the _same_ degree that Wrights words have. "Now that Wright has set the so-called standard for what isn't acceptable for religious leaders, let's see these same critics take their own kind to task for making absolutely outlandish comments. But don't stop there. Demand that candidates don't seek counsel from them. Demand that Republican candidates not go to their churches and sit in their pews and accept their contributions. And if elected, make sure those same candidates don't allow them access to the White House or halls of Congress. Turnabout is fair play, and that means guys like the Revs. Pat Robertson and John Hagee should not be sought out for their endorsements, and should be removed from any committees associated with a candidate or a political party. Oh, I can't wait to get the e-mails from folks who will say, "Yeah, but Obama was a member of the church." True, very true. But if the marker is now saying anything unacceptable to the masses, then that should be the standard for any pastor: white, black, male, female, conservative or liberal. And any candidate, member or not. I've read many of the columns and listened to the shows of these so-called conservative patriots, and few, if any, have said a word about conservative white pastors who have called for the overthrow of the government for not following Christian values (the late Francis Schaeffer, a little "g" God on the Religious Right), or who have called for the destruction of the Islamic religion of a number of Americans (Pastor Rod Parsley) and folks worldwide. Over the weekend, Bill Moyers of PBS; E.J. Dionne of the Washington Post; and Frank Rich of The New York Times have all spoken or written about this double standard that exists in America when it comes to who can speak and about what, and they -- all white men -- were focusing on the leeway white pastors are given. OK, take race out. Take ideology out. If comments Wright made seven years ago are now a part of the standard, let's see these so-called American-loving conservatives use their radio and TV talk shows, columns and Internet platforms to hold their own accountable for their post-September 11 comments. Trust me, I won't be holding my breath. Why? Because conservative religious hate has been deemed a winner at the ballot box. In fact, the more you hate, the better chance you have of getting access to the White House for tea or to be feted by the usual assortment of conservative interest groups. What these conservative media elite do is say, "Oh, poor man. The liberals just don't like you." For them, Wright's "hate" was a stench. Their "hate" comes up smelling like roses. But to every politician, whether you are a Democrat or a Republican: Beware. The die has been cast. The repeated denunciations of Wright will now lead each and every single one of you to have your pastors' oral and written words examined. If even one thing is said that can be construed as criticizing America (or common American majority viewpoints on perceived American freedoms and traditions) or deemed hateful, then expect to see it on YouTube and replayed for millions to see. I suggest you go to your pastor now and say, "Please, watch what you say. I don't want to have to denounce you on national television." To my media pals who are part of the conservative media elite, we'll be watching. And listening. Let's just see if you're as willing to tear apart one of your own." (posters note-- One minister of the sort referred to by the author of this article who comes to my mind is the hateful dialogue of the late Reverend Falwell, whose hate filled rhetoric offended many many Americans outside the narrow so-called "religious" mindset of him and his small group of core supporters. I think that the author of this article is correct in saying that had the Rev Falwell been a "long term spiritual advisor" to a major GOP politician, that fact and the words and deeds of the Rev Falwell should have been given the same importance to the political campaign and moral-ethical judgement of the politician in retaining such a person as a "spiritual advisor". It would be interesting to see if that was actually how the Dems and the GOP and the media would choose to play -that- theoretical situation, as opposed to how they've played the Wright/Obama episode. So to me, the real question is this: Have we set a firm, clearn and balanced precendent here for how a poltiical candidate should choose spiritual leadership? In that, if this happens again, would anyone else, say in the GOP side in a campaign find that their vitriolic hate-rhetoric filled minister is suddenly a measuring stick by which their own character may be measured? Or are we going to find out (as was implied above as a possible outcome) --- that this isn't going to apply next time out, when it turns out that the politician or minister in question are a member of the "white elists" among the Christian fundamentalist-evangelical crowd? Or. if this never happens again, no matter what the rhetoric coming from some candidate's "spiritual advisor", we will know that this was just a one-time political ploy used by the opposing forces and played up by the media -- and was just an opportunity seized gleefully.... Last edited on 05:14 am by sirlamre  Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. |
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shirohniichan Original500© Member  Obscurius per obscurum
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If even one thing is said that can be construed as criticizing America (or common American majority viewpoints on perceived American freedoms and traditions) or deemed hateful, then expect to see it on YouTube and replayed for millions to see. I suggest you go to your pastor now and say, "Please, watch what you say. I don't want to have to denounce you on national television." Whoever wrote this is being so disingenuous as to be laughable. Preaching "God damn America" to one's congregation or making up stupid rumors that the US government created AIDS to kill off black people is the same as "criticizing America"?! Is the writer serious and deluded, or does he know he's full of crap?
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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shirohniichan wrote: If even one thing is said that can be construed as criticizing America (or common American majority viewpoints on perceived American freedoms and traditions) or deemed hateful, then expect to see it on YouTube and replayed for millions to see. I suggest you go to your pastor now and say, "Please, watch what you say. I don't want to have to denounce you on national television." I think he's got a point actually -- Certainly what Wright said was WAY out there--- But what HAS happened is that Wright's actions and the reaction by the media has created a new "talking point" for November-- and perhaps elections after that: "let's analyze what Politician X's minister/pastor/priest said last week" There may not be any statements made that compare to Wrights, or there may BE statements that compare down the road--- What this national discourse on the meaning of statements made by "spiritual advisors" has done is put the idea on the roadmap to elections. If things are done fairly, the next time out, some other Evangelical is going to find out that the sermons he gave bashing everyone who wasn't in his narrow viewpoint are going to harm a politician in his congregation... A lot will indeed depend upon the sorts of statements made-- But I'm from the Bible Belt--- I've personally heard MANY ministers call down God's wrath upon America for being sinful, for being anti-Jesus, whatever--- That statement that Wright made simply made it to national airtime-- purely and simply, it is NOT that uncommon-- I probably could even (if I cared enough) find some old cassette tapes I have of sermons and POST wav files of exactly that sort of "come to Jesus angry rhetoric" coming from some fire and brimstone redneck minister of some church in the South someplace. I can point you to a dozen local Bible-thumping radio ministers around here who I KNOW have said 90% of the same thing, in the same way that Wright did-- many of them white. I don't care one whit what those ministers like that say--- they say lots of stupid things, many of them hate-filled statements very similar to, if not nearly identical to Wright's comments. and before JBF jumps all over me for attacking Christianity, let me add this--- I think THOSE ministers are attacking Christianity with that sort of hate-filled fire and brimstone anti-non-Christian rhetoric. I think THEY are being un-Christian --- but that's what they're doing and saying. You have to BE in the South, listen to some of these radio stations on Sunday mornings to even begin to believe some of the things that get said by the angry-rhetoric types of ministers in the South.
Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. |
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation 
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sirlamre wrote: shirohniichan wrote:If even one thing is said that can be construed as criticizing America (or common American majority viewpoints on perceived American freedoms and traditions) or deemed hateful, then expect to see it on YouTube and replayed for millions to see. I suggest you go to your pastor now and say, "Please, watch what you say. I don't want to have to denounce you on national television." Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? No. It would be hard for me to believe that Clinton's people and Obama's people both missed such statements. The somewhat ironic thing here is, Obama is closer to the idiot who's (arguably) bringing him down than McCain is to the people who could potentially do the same thing to him. Remember: There's absolutely no love lost between McCain and most of the more idiotic people who have "endorsed" him (under threat of becoming irrelevant). Pat Robertson (who is the most likely candidate for the Reverend Write Award on the Republican side) isn't exactly on good terms with McCain. The only (arguably) comparable relationship McCain has is to Hagee, and he's never spewed the anti-American nonsense that Wright has.
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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shirohniichan Original500© Member Obscurius per obscurum
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If things are done fairly, the next time out, some other Evangelical is going to find out that the sermons he gave bashing everyone who wasn't in his narrow viewpoint are going to harm a politician in his congregation... If my pastor preached on politics, made up absurd accusations against government boogeymen, and called down God's wrath on America because he thought Dutch people weren't getting fair treatment, we'd kick him out in the blink of an eye. If my pastor said in a private conversation, "Jimmy Carter is a lunkhead for being so chummy with Hamas," I don't think anyone would have a problem with that. Saying something in private is different from what one says in a public speech.
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Saint Forum-Blogger© Pioneer100© Member  Polymath
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I agree that they are others like Wright and they are all bad. But Obama actually made the situation worse by calling attention to him. I find it interesting that the first black presidential candidate is having trouble from black racists instead of white ones. Kind of ironic, yes?
A^2 + B^2 = C^2 |
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation
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Actually, I think Obama made it worse by not talking about it until he did. If he had forcefully denounced the comments, rather than trying to "explain" them and "put them in context" (as if there was ever any context that would make them okay...) he could've been done with it a lot more quickly.
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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shirohniichan wrote: If things are done fairly, the next time out, some other Evangelical is going to find out that the sermons he gave bashing everyone who wasn't in his narrow viewpoint are going to harm a politician in his congregation... You obviously aren't from the Deep South and the lower Central US.  "Pastors" down in these parts say radical things that would horrifically offend 80% of Americans ALL the time down here --- being activist radical nearly-political without getting so close that the IRS perks up interest is an ART form, not an exception to the rule in the South. Many rational people in other parts of the country WOULD do exactly that-- kick their minister to the curb. but you have NO IDEA what kind of CRAP the more right-wing nutjobs in pulpits in the Bible Belt spout almost monthly. I hear it on radio stations around here-- and in NC, I'm really sort of on the fringe-- the true radicals are in Alabama, south Georga, Texas, Louisiana, etc--- Those kinds of people, and those who attend their narrow sorts of churches WILL in fact say anything, and their followers WILL NOT consider doing anything about it. One thing that has NOT made the media is the kinds of sermons that Warren Jeffs and the things that radicals like that say. And yes, Jeffs is a problem child of the Mormons,, but the Mormons are not alone in having offshoot crazy large-population sects led by nutjob radical ministers. No -- the situation is NOT that Rev. Wright was some kind of one-off aberration -- he's not --- he is no different from a thousand other ministers of his ilk, in BOTH sides of the race aisle. The problem is that Obama didn't distance himself from that FAR more thoroughly and quickly. And I think the black vote is the reason for that.
Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. |
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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Political Matters > Media/Political treatment of Rev. Wright has set a precedent... | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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