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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Political Matters > Cheney loses legal bid to hide what he said and did in office. |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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A federal judge on Saturday ordered Dick Cheney to preserve a wide range of the records from his time as vice president. Dick Cheney and the Bush administration were sued to ensure that presidential records are not destroyed. The decision by U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly is a setback for the Bush administration in its effort to promote a narrow definition of materials that must be safeguarded under by the Presidential Records Act.The Bush administration's legal position "heightens the court's concern" that some records may not be preserved, said the judge. A private group, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, is suing Cheney and the Executive Office of the President in an effort to ensure that no presidential records are destroyed or handled in a way that makes them unavailable to the public. In a 22-page opinion, the judge revealed that in recent days, lawyers for the Bush administration balked at a proposed agreement between the two sides on how to proceed with the case. Cheney and the other defendants in the case "were only willing to agree to a preservation order that tracked their narrowed interpretation" of the Presidential Records Act, wrote Kollar-Kotelly. I don't know what they'd have to hide that they wouldn't want anyone to see. Military related decisions have the underlying intelligence hidden by other laws to protect it. Can you guess what Cheney has done in office as a matter of course that he wouldn't want the American private citizen to know about?
 Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. |
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Millennium Original500© Member
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Can you guess what Cheney has done in office as a matter of course that he wouldn't want the American private citizen to know about? If the left doesn't say he was behind 9-11 I'm really going to be disapointed... 
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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Millennium wrote: Can you guess what Cheney has done in office as a matter of course that he wouldn't want the American private citizen to know about? I don't think "the left" is going to say that. Some of them might, but all 150 million of them probably won't.
Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. |
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation 
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Executive privilege is actually a serious concept, both as a separation of powers matter, and to ensure the president gets the candid advice he needs to perform his duties. In modern times (since Eisenhower, judging from the Wikipedia article), it's been expanded to cover a lot of ground, and possibly expanded too far, but the basic concept is sound.
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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wallstreetman Original500© Member Patriot
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Maybe one day we can get the real terrorists exposed, and I'm not talking bombing buildings, I'm talking about these greedy individuals that are the real NUMBER ONE threat!
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Blacksheep Pioneer100© Member 
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wallstreetman,..this time I would agree with you.
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foxglovepress Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member  NON-PC!!
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I can hardly wait! Once this administration is over and out, there may be a lot that comes to light! I'm beginning more and more the think bush has just been a puppet all along. He's taking all the heat, but I'm wondering who's behind the fire..........
Justice for Mark.....Imprison Employers Who Hire ILLEGALS! |
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Millennium Original500© Member
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Get back to me when there is REALLY a story here...and not just sensationalism.....In the environment we have right now, inuendo is rampant and seldom is true.
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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Millennium wrote: Get back to me when there is REALLY a story here...and not just sensationalism.....In the environment we have right now, inuendo is rampant and seldom is true. I think that the story that may someday come to light is just HOW much the oil industry did to delay the move to alternate fuels... Moving to alternate fuel sources is a direct threat to their businesses, and even moving to start making money themselves off of wind, solar, etc -- would put them back at the same starting line with other companies, some of whom <horrors> might be BETTER at that then the oil companies would be, and <shudder> PROFITS might suffer. It's the basic mentality of +any+ corporation == defend your product line, ensure that what you market is always in very high demand instead of not being sold as much any more. I do know that oil company lobbyists have been among those trying to convince this and previous Administrations of the staggeringly high costs, low returns, etc -- of "attempting" to do more with nuclear power, wind power, etc. They pay a certain amount of lip-service to "reduce our oil usage" -- but they don't want to do that to such a degree that their profits actually suffer at all. So I think we'll find that Cheney and Bush, perhaps more than most, were hosts to many a delegation from Big Oil, trying to figure out how to appear as if they're interested in reducing our fossil fuel usage, but how to not actually end up downsizing themselves because of it. That's what the real game is..
Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. |
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Saint Forum-Blogger© Pioneer100© Member  Polymath
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Let's hope the truth comes out in the next 45 days... that'd put the lighter to the fuse.
A^2 + B^2 = C^2 |
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Millennium Original500© Member
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I think that the story that may someday come to light is just HOW much the oil industry did to delay the move to alternate fuels... And you make this assumption based on what? The alternate fuel rube is a ruse....If there was an alternate fuel out there, or one was profitable to make, it would be done, the MARKET would love it........This is such a weak argument....But you guys keep on...The timing of this is just outstanding, certainly not coincidental at all is it?....Create a story, back it up with inuendo, and then hopefully when the real story is out, the damage will be done... Sounds like politics as usual from the party of change. Like I said..get back to me when there is REALLY a story, not just inuendo.
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Millennium Original500© Member
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Maybe one day we can get the real terrorists exposed, and I'm not talking bombing buildings, I'm talking about these greedy individuals that are the real NUMBER ONE threat! Even if they are Democrats?..
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation
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I don't want to spend too much time on the alternative fuel conspiracy, because I think it's too weak to take all that seriously, but I will say this: There really isn't any such thing as "holding back" a technology. Once it's ready, it's ready. And there's no reason a company based on the old technology has to collapse because of the new technology. The best example of this is digital photography.Did film companies like Kodak go out of business when digital photography was developed? Nope. They just started developing digital cameras. New technology is only a threat if you can't adapt to it, and all evidence is that the oil companies have been investing for years in the next big technologies (hedging their bets, of course, as to what that technology will be). The fact is, someone, somewhere will develop a car that gets 100 MPG (of something). Petroleum oil was never a permanent solution, any more than whale oil was a permanent solution in the 19th century. There will be some companies that go under as a result of the switch, but thse companies probably would've gone under anyway. What technology doesn't do, nature will: Oil is not an inexhaustible resource.
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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24HourNut Administrator  Body pillows rock!
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Brian, you can't really compare film and digitial photography to oil, can you? The difference is, there weren't serious film lobbyists, families with great wealth built around film photography in Congress and the White House, ties with foreign film companies at the highest levels of Government, a sitting President with a film daddy, film VP, and giant, powerful film buddy overseas. In other words, I think the powers behind oil have done a great job keeping their product healthy through our corrupt political whores.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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Brian wrote: I don't want to spend too much time on the alternative fuel conspiracy, because I think it's too weak to take all that seriously, but I will say this: Ask the local blacksmith or farrier about that. I've SEEN some of the technologies that can make cars _far_ more efficient. Not into the hundreds of miles per gallon, no -- but get your average pickup truck up to about 45-50 mpg? Sure. I KNOW that GM can implement them far more easily -- because some of them are NOT major rebuilds. Ask anyone who has converted a car to running on filtered deepfryer oil. It's NOT a "thousands of dollars" conversion. Most diesels, its about $300 or so == and that is at full RETAIL pricing for the components- - not anything LIKE as cheap as it would be once someone like GM started buying the components by the millions. And -- the other thing: Remember when cars had the unlock buttons on the doors, with the nice little caps on top of the button so it was stylish? Remember how thieves could unlock the door with a coathanger by just knifeblading open the vent, and putting a coathanger around that button and lifting underneath that little cap? The fix was to just make those buttons without the cap -- so that the coathanger wouldn't catch on it. And to put the little lock button on the vent handle, so that it couldn't just be rotated up with a knifeblade stuck alongside the glass. Know how long it took car makers to CHANGE that after people started complaining? Almost TEN YEARS - The companies spent hundreds of thousands on legal defenses, lobbyists, crap like that -- always claiming that making the changeswas going to be EXPENSIVE and make cars cost MORE. The other classic is the button to automatically raise and lower the window on cars--- Those first appeared on luxury cars back in the 1970s - more than 30 years ago. Until about 2000, those operated on many cars WITHOUT the ignition key being in the car-- (the idea being that you could get out of a submerged car without the ignition on) Many children were injured or killed by playing with these buttons (yes, that's ultimately the parents fault== BUT would you like to have your gas oven have direct access from the front to the flame? Would you like your power tools to have no interlock and no blade guard) After 2000, it took dozens of lawsuits, and a Federal order from the FHTSA to ENFORCE carmakers simply moving ONE WIRE from one connector to another connector. If the court cases hadn't been "sealed" at the request of the carmakers attorneys, the Internet would probably be full of documentation of the lawsuits. In 2004, carmakers were STILL being sued because they were STILL making the buttons go DOWN to raise the window, which meant that a child could step on one, and raise the window. Some of them finally began to agree to make the button recessed and pull UP in order to raise the window, in addition to having the ignition on. (note- Nissan has ALWAYS done this = my 2000 Frontier has a recessed button that doesn't work unless the ignition is on) It's mostly been US carmakers that have fought this. Oh, and what does it take to change that? A few minutes of work on a CAD system to redesign the area on the door where the switches are, and NO additional time on the assembly line. Cost of the switch? The same -- it's the same switch, just mounted turned over instead of the way it has been. Again, instead of being proactive and forward thinking, the carmakers FOUGHT these changes. Oh, another thing === it costs about $10 extra for the parts for a motor that can sense current usage and STOP or reverse when something impedes it. That's my retail cost for the two additional parts and 3' of wire. I'm sure GM wouldn't pay anything like that cost, since they wouldn't have to buy from Radio Shack, they'd buy directly from manufacturer in quantity. They still don't do that. It's too expenseive That's just one of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of examples of such. Any engineer can tell you of dozens in his field == and most of us engineers KNOW the true cost of making these changes, both for safety reasons and for efficiency reasons. So tell me again how our US Corporations are the very epitome of forward thinking do what can be done "if we can do it cheaply, we would be" ??? I don't think so. And I'm not getting this from "the media". I AM an engineer--- I KNOW engineers who work in Detroit, Houston, etc There are a LOT of good, cheap ideas out there, being ignored, because it would "cost too much" to bring to market. Bullshit.... It's not an attitude of "what can be done is being done" It's "do only what will bring in a BIG profit QUICKLY" and "make no changes that would COST us anything in real terms" This is the beancounters of course... convincing the management Last edited on 10:52 pm by sirlamre Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. |
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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Political Matters > Cheney loses legal bid to hide what he said and did in office. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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