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ccrdragon Guardian1000© Member  Copper Nut
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I realize that you are a liberal (I don't understand that point of view, but I do understand that you are committed 100% to that point of view), and after you posted the following diatribe yesterday, I do have a few questions to ask you about the liberal point of view: Since Obama won, here is some advice for you: 1. Sell your assault rifle, you won't be needing it. 2. Get ready to welcome home what's left of our military from Iraq, they deserve it after dying for nothing for five years. 3. Deal with the fact that women all over our country can be free to make their own choices concerning their bodies without your interference. Freedom is American. 4. If you are a hyper-rich billionaire, prepare to pay your way in this country or get out. 5. If you are a company that outsources jobs and puts Americans out of work, prepare to hit the unemployment line yourself. 6. If you are a gay couple, congratulations! You actually get to express your love for your mate and get married just like all the other Americans! 7. If you are poor, stand by, things are going to shift your way for once. 8. If you are Native American, You'll get to have a native American advisor on the White House staff for the first time in history! 9. If you are sick, watch for your co-payments to drop, and you'll get money to help you! If you have great insurance, keep it! 10. If you are a criminal or mentally deficient, sorry, but it's going to be harder for you to buy ten handguns a month. 11. If you are a minority, or a religious group, even if you are a Muslim-American citizen and have been for decades, don't worry, Obama will stand with you and keep people from discriminating against you or treating you in an UnAmerican way. 12. If you are a United States Ally, great! Obama is going to want to talk to you and get you back in the fold again. Sorry about that "Bush" thing, Our country gets a terrible leader every so often, but we've come back to our senses. 13. If you are a leader of a terrorist country - Look out, we're going to try to talk some sense into you. I suggest you listen to President Obama, he's giving you a chance to change. Bush would have just nuked you! 14. If you are Osama Bin Laden, you are in trouble. No more hiding in Pakistan for you. Obama is after you! 15. But mostly, if you are an average American citizen... breathe a sigh of relief. THE NIGHTMARE OF EIGHT YEARS OF REPUBLICAN RULE IS OVER!. Sure the country is a wreck, our friends hate us, terrorism is worse than ever, and we have lost 5000 of our young men and women and untold treasure in Iraq, but Barack Obama is now the President and he will begin to inspire and lead like a real President should. He'll pick up the pieces and heal the country, so be at ease and relax. It's about time. Whew! 1. why do you want people to give up a personal liberty such as gun ownership? 2. I won't touch the disrespect that this line evokes with a ten foot pole 3. Women already have this freedom now, how does Obama's election change anything???? 4. The only thing that I have heard from Obama is that he is going to increase the taxes for people who make more than $250,000... not that he is going to close any of the loopholes that allow the hyper-rich to hang onto the money that they have. Do you have different info on this? 5. Combine this comment with the one above - if you kill the cow that produces the milk, you run out of milk in a very short time... think about it.... 6. Too hot of a topic for Obama to do anything about in the short run and prolly in the long run as well (Obama is not stupid and knows how to keep from getting his hands burned!) 7. how to you figure that giving the poor some more handouts is going to turn the tide thier way? please show me examples of any government hand-out that done anything to eliminate or even reduce poverty? 8. so what difference will this make exactly??? 9. will not happen until we shoot all of the lawyers - they are the ones that are causing the costs of insurance and medical practices in general to skyrocket in this country 10. Where do you think criminals buy thier guns (I'll give you a hint - it's not at the local Walmart)??? There is no amount of government regulation, rules, etc that is going to stop the criminals from buying thier guns off the local streetcorner! 11. see answer number 3 - the same thing applies! 12. I don't really care if the whole world hates America as long as the president is doing what it takes to keep my country and my ass safe. 13. Please give me examples from recent history (say, the last 100 years) where talking to Terrorists (or even the bad guys if that's what you want to call them) has gotten the desired result - i.e. for them to knock off the attacks and 'join the fold'... 14. So your boy is going to invade Pakistan?!?!? 15. Last time I checked, Congress has been run by the Democrats for at least the last 2 years and Congress is making the laws, not the president... how is the situation going to change just because there is a Democrat in the Whitehouse? Please be specific and don't spout more campaign rhetoric at me... And one final question that I have to ask of all of the liberals on this site, and this really goes to the core of my conservative stance - how is it that you can relinquish such a personal thing as 'personal responsibility' to the government? And please don't tell me that you don't because the whole core of the liberal think being is that nothing is there fault - it's always someone else's fault! Since it is always some else's fault, the liberals do not believe in personal responsibility and have given it to the government (since they expect the government to make thier lives and everyone else's work - accepting no responsibility - or blame - for what happens)
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newbiecollector Pioneer100© Member  You can't fake real
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Did the post need to be that long to express your opinion? That is a question.
 Enjoy the pleasure of life Wayne |
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Marie5656 Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member  Just hanging out
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And these are bad things because? Seems a good cut and paste job, but why is much of that so wrong? Women having control of their own bodies? Gays being allowed to express their love freely and without judgement? What a concept. Assault weapons? Why? Mentally ill having harder access to guns. Two words..Virginia Tech.
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Millennium Original500© Member
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"And these are bad things because?" (Shaking head...trying to be civil and understand that some people just never will get it.) No comment.
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation 
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Marie5656 wrote: And these are bad things because? Seems a good cut and paste job, but why is much of that so wrong? Hi, Marie. I agree with your sentiment on gays being allowed to express their love (and I'm guessing you mean through marriage, which I'm okay with), but I have some concerns with some of the other things you mention here. 1) The Supreme Court has upheld the right to bear arms in a pretty broad way, so at the very least, you have to define what you mean by "assault weapons" before you could come within 100 miles of banning them. 2) Just because someone is mentally ill isn't necessarily a reason to deprive them of a constitutional right. At the very least, the type of mental illness would have to come into play. Someone suffering from a phobia, dissociative disorder, or even schizophrenia isn't necessarily dangerous with a gun. Mental illness is a broad category, and you can't necessarily make a law that general in scope. 3) Women having control of their own bodies is a good thing. I think everyone would agree with that in principle. But when you're pregnant, you're not just talking about your body. There's another human life involved. Just because you have a right to privacy doesn't mean you have a right to do whatever you want in private. If you're brought to court on child abuse charges, you can't defend yourself by saying, "The child is in my house, and I'll do whatever I damn well please." As someone born with a handicap, I feel very strongly about that. A woman can always choose whether or not they become pregnant, but once you are pregnant, the configuration of interests is completely different.
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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ccrdragon Guardian1000© Member Copper Nut
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no newbie, it didn't need to be that long... Marie - I agree with Brian on the women having control of thier bodies point. I did notice that none of the hard questions has been answered... you will also notice that I did not say these were bad things, I just don't understand the point of view that would express these things as such a GREAT thing... (if that makes sense) Last edited on 08:23 pm by ccrdragon |
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Saint Forum-Blogger© Pioneer100© Member  Polymath
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ccrdragon wrote:I realize that you are a liberal (I don't understand that point of view, but I do understand that you are committed 100% to that point of view), and after you posted the following diatribe yesterday, I do have a few questions to ask you about the liberal point of view: 1. why do you want people to give up a personal liberty such as gun ownership? I am against assault rifles. If you have to ask why, talk to the survivors of recent massacres. I am for background checks, waiting periods, and gun registration. SoI am for gun ownership, with responsibility and common sense. 2. I won't touch the disrespect that this line evokes with a ten foot pole No WMDs, no reason to invade a country that had not attacked us. It was an illegal war and more shameful to me than Vietnam. President Bush disrespected every serviceman who gave their life to this misguided lie. It smeared our reputation, it dissolved our honor, it alienated our friends and it destroyed our credibility. We used to be the "good guys" but with torture, we have made ourselves the villians to the world. Shame on us and shame on anyone who supports the war. (I support the veterans and servicemen, but I still feed bad that they died for a wrong cause.) 3. Women already have this freedom now, how does Obama's election change anything???? It keeps people who would strip away personal freedom from being able to do so. 4. The only thing that I have heard from Obama is that he is going to increase the taxes for people who make more than $250,000... not that he is going to close any of the loopholes that allow the hyper-rich to hang onto the money that they have. Do you have different info on this? Did you miss the fact that the hyper-rich make more than 250,000 dollars a year. I'm not sure I understand your confusion. 5. Combine this comment with the one above - if you kill the cow that produces the milk, you run out of milk in a very short time... think about it.... Companies that deliberately hurt America, through irresponsible and greedy practices like outsourcing are the cause of our economic woes. It's time to pull together, not bail out. There are plenty of companies that hire Americans, reward them, punish the others. Until it becomes more profitable to stay in America than to leave. 6. Too hot of a topic for Obama to do anything about in the short run and prolly in the long run as well (Obama is not stupid and knows how to keep from getting his hands burned!) So do you, I noticed. You didn't state your views or ask a question. America is the land of the Free. Free to be who you want, how you want. It should be that way for all of us. Logical. 7. how to you figure that giving the poor some more handouts is going to turn the tide thier way? please show me examples of any government hand-out that done anything to eliminate or even reduce poverty? Where did you get the word "handouts?" This is an example of your bias. I was speaking of tax breaks for the middle class and the poor. I also believe the hyper-rich should pull their weight. I'm for a flat tax rate for everyone...fair. 8. so what difference will this make exactly??? Now you're just being dense. Do you think that Native Americans should NOT have a voice in the White House? Of course it will help to have a representative in the White House to give advice to the President on native American Affairs. Duh. 9. will not happen until we shoot all of the lawyers - they are the ones that are causing the costs of insurance and medical practices in general to skyrocket in this country Ah. I see, you really weren't interested in my views, you just wanted to espouse your own. 10. Where do you think criminals buy thier guns (I'll give you a hint - it's not at the local Walmart)??? There is no amount of government regulation, rules, etc that is going to stop the criminals from buying thier guns off the local streetcorner! Please give a man with three college degrees credit. I know that, but making it harder is a good idea. And you forget that straw buyers can legally dump hundreds of handguns on crime-ridden cities right now. Do you support that? (I doubt if you'll answer.) 11. see answer number 3 - the same thing applies! Wow. You dodged that question so much, I don't even think you read it. Go ahead...I'm waiting. What problem do you have with loyal Muslim Americans? 12. I don't really care if the whole world hates America as long as the president is doing what it takes to keep my country and my ass safe. The child-like naivete that you express here is disconcerting to say the least. You are either being deliberately obtuse, or you really don't understand the world as it is in the 21st century. The ONLY way to keep you safe is to work hand in hand with all the other people on the planet. (Isolationism: SEE PEARL HARBOR AND 9/11) 3. Please give me examples from recent history (say, the last 100 years) where talking to Terrorists (or even the bad guys if that's what you want to call them) has gotten the desired result - i.e. for them to knock off the attacks and 'join the fold'... Was there a question in there? Or has this turned into an interrogation? I counter: WWI - The Teaty of Versailles, Vietnam - military force did not work due to a political war similar to Iraq, with negotiation, they are now our allies, China, Russia, The Berlin Wall...need I go on? Diplomacy is ALWAYS better than warfare. Even a child knows this. 14. So your boy is going to invade Pakistan?!?!? He said he would if he had to to get Osama Bin Laden. Bush couldn't do it, but then Bush couldn't talk to the Pakistanis. yet another example off blown diplomacy. 15. Last time I checked, Congress has been run by the Democrats for at least the last 2 years and Congress is making the laws, not the president... how is the situation going to change just because there is a Democrat in the Whitehouse? Please be specific and don't spout more campaign rhetoric at me... Bush ignored the Constitution with his signing statements 125 times. he ignored the laws. A professor of Constitutional law from Harvard is not likely to do that. And one final question that I have to ask of all of the liberals on this site, and this really goes to the core of my conservative stance - how is it that you can relinquish such a personal thing as 'personal responsibility' to the government? Where was your sense of "personal responsibility" when Bush started an illegal war? Did you protest? Did you object? In truth, you have allowed your choice of President, Bush, to run roughshod over our country (war) our freedoms, (the Patriot Act) and our economy. Pot...meet kettle. Did that answer your interrogation< whoops I mean "questions?" Last edited on 08:58 pm by Saint A^2 + B^2 = C^2 |
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Millennium Original500© Member
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LOL..Bush waged an illegal war?......Now you are funny. The left still can't get over that, no matter how foolish it still makes them look. I didn't see but one democrat vote against the war...a womam in California.. They saw the same intel that Bush and several other heads of state saw, from several different intel sources and agreed that it had to be done.. Clinton Kerry, and every other person in office...Remember Barrak wasn't in office then.. he jumped on the anti war bandwagon when it became popular for the left to do so voted and said so openly that Saddam had to be removed.. You seem to be forgetting that little pesky slice of history.. What's the matter?.. Freedom is only for you, and nobody else in the world? Pretty damn selfish...I guess you also think we should never gone into Germany and waged a war against Hitler and the gas chambers...Those jews..how dare them to want freedom...those damn Iraquis..how dare them to want freedom.. Some humaitarian you are. Saint......you aren't ignorant.....you just know a lot of stuff that isn't true... Last edited on 11:45 pm by Millennium |
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Saint Forum-Blogger© Pioneer100© Member Polymath
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Millennium wrote:LOL..Bush waged an illegal war?......Now you are funny. The left still can't get over that, no matter how foolish it still makes them look. Go ahead, tell me why it was legal. We invaded a country under false pretenses to unseat an unpopular dictator. It was none of our business. As I've said before, how would we have felt if France had "saved" us from George III? I didn't see but one democrat vote against the war...a womam in California.. If someone lies to you to convince you of the legality of something, and you act on that advice, are you the criminal? They saw the same intel that Bush and several other heads of state saw, from several different intel sources and agreed that it had to be done.. But they didn't know the intel was made up. Clinton Kerry, and every other person in office...Remember Barrak wasn't in office then.. he jumped on the anti war bandwagon when it became popular for the left to do so voted and said so openly that Saddam had to be removed.. Again, based on lies. You seem to be forgetting that little pesky slice of history.. You seem to be denying it. What's the matter?.. Freedom is only for you, and nobody else in the world? Ddid you just advocate world conquest? "Let's invade them all because it would be good for them?!!!" That's the exact kind of thinking that got us in this jam in the first place. I couldn't have given a better example. Pretty damn selfish...I guess you also think we should never gone into Germany and waged a war against Hitler and the gas chambers... Did Saddam roll across Europe in a blitzkreig? (See: the thread on belittling history.) .those damn Iraquis..how dare them to want freedom.. Yes, let's conquer every county that is not a democracy. But wouldn't that make us similar to Communist Russia of the 1970s? You're not a pinko, are you? Some humaitarian you are. Hey! Thanks! I knew I could talk some sense into you! Saint......you aren't ignorant.....you just know a lot of stuff that isn't true...
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Millennium Original500© Member
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"If someone lies to you to convince you of the legality of something, and you act on that advice, are you the criminal?" Finally you see the light!..."If intelligence organizations you trust lie to you or give you false information about WMD's that you believe to be true, and have no reason to suspect it not being true because they had shown in the past they had it, does that make you a liar when they aren't found?" What kind of president you you be if you chose to ignore that type of info at the peril of every US citizen here? I hope to God if that same info was given to Obama, he wouldn't choose to ignore it. You sir...just got bitch-slapped. Last edited on 12:31 am by Millennium |
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Millennium Original500© Member
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Yes, let's conquer every county that is not a democracy. But wouldn't that make us similar to Communist Russia of the 1970s? You're not a pinko, are you? A democracy being copmpared to a communist country???!!!!?!?!..Now I see where you are coming from..you don't see the difference.. Carry on, Saint, common sense is not going to be a factor in your arguments. You can choose to ignore the truth, but most if not all here know better..You look pretty silly right about now. 
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Saint Forum-Blogger© Pioneer100© Member Polymath
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Millennium wrote:
Here's where we argue about whether or not Bush knew it was bad information. You say no, I say yes, but we'll most likely never really know. You sir...just got bitch-slapped. lol. Now settle down! i'm sorry I started that whole "bitch-slapping" thing!  Seriously, I'm going to try hard to get back on an even keel with you, you know I like you don't you? How can I not like someone who is as passionate about their beliefs as I am about mine?
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Millennium Original500© Member
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Here's where we argue about whether or not Bush knew it was bad information. You say no, I say yes, but we'll most likely never really know. The problem is this...there's documentation that backs what I said...you just have the misinformation that the left has tried to certify by repeating a lie over and over and over, hoping to make it true. "Seriously, I'm going to try hard to get back on an even keel with you, you know I like you don't you? How can I not like someone who is as passionate about their beliefs as I am about mine?" Good lord......all I need is a groupie! Last edited on 02:19 am by Millennium |
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Saint Forum-Blogger© Pioneer100© Member Polymath
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Well, I'm sorry you feel that way, but I'm still standing with my hand out... We all have to stand together, it's our only hope.
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Millennium Original500© Member
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