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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Political Matters > Do you think the government should bail out the automakers? |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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Saint wrote:
 Agreed. I hate it when a Corporation says "our spokesman has no comment" How about the CEO coming out and APOLOGISING on national TV for losing a million credit card numbers, or whatever? That being said, I don't know that the execs and management are the real problem. Yup, don't let 'em out the door with $$MillionS$$ but the hourly workers that get $45 an hour when LAID OFF is the big problem too. THAT has to end as well. In this case, nailing the execs and management won't solve the problem
 Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. |
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foxglovepress Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member  NON-PC!!
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Blacksheep wrote: This country has forgotten how valuable the working man is to their lifestyle.If we aint,...they aint. Someday,...I hope there is such a shortage of workers and we are able to start jerking their chains to get what is best for everyone so we all succeed and thrive instead of this one direction of wealth. FGP wrote: They don't need to value American workers anymore. They are in the process of replacing them!! That's why big business is behind the illegals...........
Justice for Mark.....Imprison Employers Who Hire ILLEGALS! |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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Though I guess this shows what's about to happen. Congress will pass it in this lame duck session --- or the GOP might manage to stall it until the new Congress comes in. The potential collapse of the auto industry would be "a disaster" amid today's economic crisis, President-elect Barack Obama told CBS' "60 Minutes" in a wide-ranging interview airing Sunday. "It's my belief that we need to provide assistance to the auto industry," Obama tells veteran correspondent Steve Kroft, according to excerpts released by CBS. "But I think that it can't be a blank check." The Senate is expected to vote this week on emergency loans to the auto industry, though the measure faces strong opposition from many Republicans. The bill would authorize loans to the auto industry from the Treasury Department's $700 billion fund to bail out the financial services industry. Detroit auto executives are scheduled to plead their case in public hearings in the House and Senate.
Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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foxglovepress wrote: Blacksheep wrote: Um... no. The "working man" IS the problem in this case-- They're making HUGE salaries compared to even most of the Detroit management, except perhaps for the top 3% of management. they get BETTER retirement than the management does. The UAW is KILLING this country. And FGP, NO the Unions ARE NOT helping get illegals in --- You can count on Detroit being the ONE place that the illegals aren't making much ground at all ---
Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. |
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foxglovepress Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member NON-PC!!
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sirlamre wrote: foxglovepress wrote:Blacksheep wrote: Well let's hope it stays that way. Then what you're saying is you believe it's the Union that's causing this?
Justice for Mark.....Imprison Employers Who Hire ILLEGALS! |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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foxglovepress wrote:
In large part, yes. Anyplace that workers get paid 95% of their salary while LAID OFF (sometimes for years at a time) Anyplace that your FAMILY continues to get your health benefits when YOU retire, and the benefits continue for them AFTER you die! And it's nearly full-ride 0$ for dependents too. It IS 0$ costs to the ex-employee. I don't think there IS such a thing as a deductible in some cases for employees hired during the Reagan Administration and back to 'Nam (the heyday of the Unions) Some things have changed in the UAW - it used to be that whatever the contract was, the new hire got ALL of the bennies instantly on their first day. Now they do have to work for a year or so to collect ALL the benefits. And the bennies aren't as nice as they were if you started in the early 80s or late 70s. But there are still hundreds of thousands of people riding the profits of GM, whose family member who worked in Detroit have been retired for years now --- that are still out there doing nothing for themselves for healthcare, riding GM for all GM will provide under the union contract in effect when their family member was working. I don't think American workers should be shoved out the door at 65 and told "manage your own affairs, your usefulness to this country is at an end" or "you're our employee, you're totally replaceable, you work out your OWN healthcare and retirement - and don't do it on company time. You have time at home, your children won't miss you if you have to go get insurance and meet your retirement broker instead of be with your kids or go to church" But the unions have taken the "company should provide for it's employees" thing and made a Mafia-esque protection racket out of it.
Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. |
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Saint Forum-Blogger© Pioneer100© Member  Polymath
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I'd say that if I am going to become a part owner of the company, that they'd better get off their butts and start putting out a viable product. Open up those vaults, forget the under-the-table contracts with the oil companies and get to work building 120 MPG cars, hydrogen cars, fuel-cell technology, and any other esoteric technology they've been sitting on for the last thirty years.
A^2 + B^2 = C^2 |
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foxglovepress Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member NON-PC!!
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Sirlamre........you've got a good point! I use to think we needed Unions to help the poor pea-on get something other than everything going to the top of the pile all the time. The question to me would be, how much is STILL going on the top of the pile?? I realize if you own a business you should be getting some off the top after all, you're the one taking all the chances and doing all the leg work. If the top of the pile is still taking everything, and then blaming the union and employees for their demise.........oh well, go down! We can get by without your cars anyway!! Saint......... I agree with what your saying too. They have been screwing the Americans out of a much better product for the sake of under the table Bennie's. Time to start producing, or they shouldn't get a dime!!
Justice for Mark.....Imprison Employers Who Hire ILLEGALS! |
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Lady Cop Pioneer100© Member 
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The beggars in their corporate jets By CARL HIAASEN If you're like most Americans, you probably weren't dabbing tears from your eyes while listening to the woeful pleas of Richard Wagoner, Alan Mulally and Robert Nardelli. They are the chiefs of the Big Three automakers, who last week traveled in high style to our nation's capital and begged for $25 billion to save their companies -- and, by dire inference, the whole American economy -- from ruin. Interestingly, none of these gentlemen took much blame for leading the U.S. car industry into this terrible abyss, citing instead the global credit crunch, unfavorable trade policies and other factors out of their control. And while it's probably true that the automobiles being made today by GM, Ford and Chrysler are safer, more reliable and more fuel-efficient than ever, that's only because they're scrambling to catch up with Japanese competitors, who've been kicking their butts for the last 30 years. Toyota and Honda aren't asking Congress to bail them out, because they don't need it. But if they ever do, they probably won't be so foolish as to send their top executives on a public money-grubbing mission in a private luxury aircraft. Wagoner, Mulally and Nardelli all flew to Washington on separate corporate jets, which provoked lacerating commentary from the legislators whose sympathy they sought. Said Rep. Gary Ackerman of New York: ``It's almost like seeing a guy show up at the soup kitchen in high-hat and tuxedo . . . I mean, couldn't you all have downgraded to first class or jet-pooled or something to get here?'' The response to that inquiry was a blank stare from the pampered auto chiefs, for whom the idea of flying commercial is inconceivable, worse than standing in the deli line at the grocery. You'd be hard pressed to find three guys more disconnected from Main Street and less qualified to talk about the plight of the average auto worker. According to The Washington Post, Wagoner's total compensation from GM last year was $15.7 million. Mulally collected $21.7 million from Ford. When asked by Rep. Peter Roskam of Illinois if he'd be willing to cut his salary to $1 a year, as Chrysler's Nardelli has said he would do, Mulally replied: ``I think I'm okay where I am.'' Spoken like a true capitalist. Now give that man a big fat government bailout! As for Nardelli's benevolent offer to accept only a buck-a-year in compensation, he could surely afford it. In January 2007, he quit abruptly after six years as CEO of Home Depot Inc., where he'd been paid as much as $38 million annually. Before leaving the company, Nardelli negotiated a ''retirement'' package worth $210 million, a stunningly obscene sum even in the surreal realm of corporate parachutes. The amazing thing is that GM, Ford and Chrysler all have sophisticated public-relations departments that their executives obviously failed to consult before hopping in their Gulfstreams and Lears and zooming off to Washington. Nobody was asking that the CEOs apologize for their personal wealth and career successes. But when the corporation that rewards you so extravagantly is going down the toilet, a little humility and sensitivity is in order. If one or more of the Big Three should collapse, the impact on the economic markets will be massive, the ripple extending far beyond Detroit. Labor experts estimate that as many as 2.5 million people could be thrown out of work nationwide. Nobody wants that to happen, but we also don't want to throw our money at an industry that stupidly continued to crank out SUVs even as gasoline was hitting $4 per gallon. When the Big Three belatedly decided to ''retool'' and go green, what did they do? They asked for, and have been promised, a $25 billion loan from Uncle Sam. Then the companies announced they needed another $25 billion as a cash float, to get through these rocky times. Boy, did they send the wrong bunch to make their pitch. The generosity of Americans doesn't -- and shouldn't -- extend to sustaining the ethereal lifestyles of multimillionaires. Lots of executives fly private, but not to their own pity parties. Bailouts are meant to save jobs, not corporate chariots. The CEOs went back to Detroit rejected, if not chastened. While Congress is mulling a compromise loan package, the attitude toward the automakers remains deeply skeptical. If the companies were smart, they would have benched the Fab Three and instead sent some Main Street faces to Washington -- an assembly-line worker from a Ford plant, a transmission mechanic from a Chrysler dealership, an upholstery cutter from a GM parts supplier. In other words, men and women who would truly suffer if those companies folded; folks who might not be able to pay their mortgages, or keep their kids in college . . . or even fly Jet Blue, much less on a Gulfstream.
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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"When asked by Rep. Peter Roskam of Illinois if he'd be willing to cut his salary to $1 a year, as Chrysler's Nardelli has said he would do, Mulally replied: ``I think I'm okay where I am.'' " I say LET THEM FALL.... With people like THAT at their helm, the dinosaurs deserve to die off... And you can bet that his attitude is NOT some sort of "one off" that no one else in management or UAW management has. ANY of these fat cats, GM management OR the UAW 'management" would say the same thing in response to that question.
Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. |
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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Political Matters > Do you think the government should bail out the automakers? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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