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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Political Matters > Do you think the government should bail out the automakers? |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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There are risks for doing it (extends the bad business situation they are in, etc) There are risks for NOT doing it (ripple effect damage to signifigant parts of the US economy who aren't at fault except for having a stupid customer)
 Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. |
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24HourNut Administrator  Body pillows rock!
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I hate to say it, but we should probably do something to give GM a chance to turn around.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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well, I don't know about giving them a chance exactly. I think PMH had it right --- bankruptcy allows them to break all the crazy-ass union contracts that are crippling them. BUT -- that will cost the economy a LOT I think. It really is fairly true that many many companies and other people will get badly hurt, most of which did nothing wrong other than do a lot of business with one very lucrative customer... Some of them though, like Delphi, are a big part of the problem in how they and their unions treated GM like a cash cow, and simply "charged what the market would bear" whether that was wise or whether it was shortsighted. In many ways, I think this whole idea of "the American Dream means that I should make as much money as I possibly can as fast as I can, and to hell with whether that's good for anyone else" is a bad idea morally --- it will have bad effects ultimately if you kill your golden goose, or steadily keep nearly killing it by working it 48 hours a day on one grain of corn a week. Which is how American business treats it's customers, for the most part--- "price the widgets up until it hurts them, then raise it a little more -- if they have to buy on credit, that's not our fault, they should be more profitable themselves (so we can take more from them)""
Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. |
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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Well, it's certainly going to be interesting to watch how this unfolds. I'm pretty nervous for Americans right now, in general. But I'm hopeful.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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aknow Original500© Member
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My father was a GM dealer for over 30 years from the late 1950's until the early 1990's. He sold Pontiacs and Cadillacs in Chicago and the West Coast. In the mid 1970's I worked with him, checking in new car deliveries off of shipping trucks. One morning he joined me to see if I was missing any damages and as he looked down the entire side of a new 1976 Pontiac, he exclaimed "These cars are really crap" Subsequently he took on a Mazda franchise as GM sales began to wane, and they became harder to sell. My opinion: Don't bail out mis management. If Unions and GM management had the vision to teach real preventative health care instead of disaster medical intervention, their employees would have been healthier, incurred a fraction of their medical costs and they'd probably be solvent. They've been making inferior autos with stone age mechanics for decades. I think they need to go away, and more effective, more efficient autos should and will gladly replace them. I have a patient who is a parts manager with Toyota of Hollywood, here in California. He's managed to drive his 1981 Toyota over 400,000 miles with only minor repairs and replacements. GM has had the wisdom and technology to build cars like the Japanese have for many years but they've been too arrogant and fat to listen to reason. Maybe they should be replaced with bicycles and horses.
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dazdncnfsd Guardian1000© Member 
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Yes, but only if they file bankruptcy first. They need to get rid of those ridiculous contracts with the unions. The fact that the workers make 95% of their pay WHEN layed-off doesn't make me feel real sorry for any of them. I know at the GM plant in Ft. Wayne, they are starting new hires at $15 an hour, all while they have to work next to someone making between $30 and $40 an hour for doing the same thing. And, it's all automated at this plant. They do practically nothing for what they make an hour. My biggest reason for wanting a bailout is solely for the fact that almost every factory in my county of 30,000 will shut down because they all supply the big three. They estimate over 3 million ppl will lose their jobs all over the country if the big 3 go under. If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't give a rats if they went under. They have done it to themselves.
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Millennium Original500© Member
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Until they CHANGE the reason they aren't competitive on the market, I say no.
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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I wish the politicians from BOTH parties (the pro Business party AND the pro worker party) would BOTH decide to not bail out GM, but instead to ensure that the OTHER companies affected by a total bankruptcy would be protected. Unfortinately, the GOP and the Dems will never allow that to to happen. The UAW has bought far far far too many GOP politicians, and GM has donated too much money to the Dems AND the GOP.
Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. |
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wallstreetman Original500© Member Patriot
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dazdncnfsd wrote:
How much does the CEO make?
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aknow Original500© Member
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It was reported last night on ABC news that the annual medical/pharmaceutical expenses for GM employees just for VIAGRA is over $35 million. And you wonder why GM no longer manufactures muscle cars? And is this what AMerikan tax payers want to buy?
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pmh1nic Pioneer100© Member 
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No. Business are in business to supply a product or serve and make a profit. If they can't make a profit they shouldn't be in business.
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Saint Forum-Blogger© Pioneer100© Member  Polymath
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Millennium wrote:Until they CHANGE the reason they aren't competitive on the market, I say no. I'm with Mil, unless Detroit is ready to change the way they do business, to look logically at the need for alternative-fueled cars, bailing them out is a waste of our money. They KNEW that this crisis was coming in 1975 and did NOTHING about it. Cars today actually get worse gas mileage than my old 307 V8! In America, you stand OR FALL on your own decisions. If we don't live by that motto, what are we?
A^2 + B^2 = C^2 |
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Blacksheep Pioneer100© Member 
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I would have to say,...let 'em go down. Yeah,...definate repercussions for the average worker and citizen but lets deal with the problems and let the big boys start looking for work also.Let them have trouble with the house payments for their mansions and lose their shit too. Dont take me as being cold but every time we bail anybody out,...we enable the problem people and cut our own wrists at the same time. If they FU,...let 'em pay for it.Wish there was some way to deal with the top heavy, management high salary Exect's and Bonus's.Seems that as long as they can use the workers as their pawns and cash Cow,...they can live high on the hog. This country has forgotten how valuable the working man is to their lifestyle.If we aint,...they aint. Someday,...I hope there is such a shortage of workers and we are able to start jerking their chains to get what is best for everyone so we all succeed and thrive instead of this one direction of wealth.
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Cars Original500© Member  Love Living Large
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YES! However, there's a but, & it's a big but! They should be bailed out, "BUT", only after all the CEO's of the big "3" and the upper level exec's are fired!!! That's Fired, "without" getting millions in stock options, bonuses, outrageous retirement, free medical, or any special prevledges. They were the captains of their ship that sank, & those captains should go down with their ship!!! New blood is needed in the top big 3 companies, for there to be the drastic changes needed & for out of the box thinking to come about!
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Blacksheep Pioneer100© Member
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O.K.,...Cars,...I would retract what I said under those conditions!
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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Political Matters > Do you think the government should bail out the automakers? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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