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carew4me Original500© Member 
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Christianity I think this sums up perfectly why I'm not beheaded
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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I'd say it's more about the degree of 'literalist' interpretation. I doubt the Bible itself changes that much--- People always start these debates centered around "who changed the Bible" But when you look at details in Christian beliefs that go beyond "Christ lived and was crucified", or "The 10 Commandments were brought by Moses" you begin to find things in Christianity that aren't in the Bible- like why the sermon comes AFTER the offertory in some churches, and before it in others-- both of which claim Biblical reasoning, not personal choice, as the reason for the arrangement of the service. The use of incense is another-- many churches do use it, equally many more consider it Satanic. Or the icons on the vestments of Catholic priests, and much of the decoration inside a church- all has meaning that is claimed to have 'Biblical' support. Or the concept of 'confession'-- most Protestant churches claim Biblical reasons NOT to take confession, and the Catholic church equally claims that the Bible supports confession. That is ALL based in the 'interpretation' side of things-- the stringing together of various Bible verses to support a conclusion that some bishop or church elders came to think long ago-- and went to find "Biblical" justification for. I remember when the Presbyterian Church split several times-- PCUSA, PCCSA were born of the difference between Northern and Southern interpretations over support for slavery in the Bible-- (FF would've enjoyed that debate) DesertRat wrote: Blackhawk wrote:As a matter of fact, the case could be made that since ancient times, some Christian churches, and especially many of the newist of the "sects" if you will have been constantly changing the word of God to fit the current political ideals of their members.
 Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. |
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Iwog Pioneer100© Member 
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DesertRat wrote:Actually, the word "slave" does not exist in the original Hebrew (Old Testament) or Greek (New Testament) text's. The word for "slave(s)" is a rendering of the Greek word "soma" meaning "bodies." The Hebrew and Greek words for slave are usually rendered simply "servant," "bondman," or "bondservant" in the original vernacular. That's all very interesting, however it was the Southern Baptists who were using the Bible to justify slavery. Therefore the meaning of the word was changed to reflect the morality of the time. Remember your question? "Can you provide clear examples of how the Bible has been changed to fit political ideaology please? " This is a clear example of the Bible being changed to fit political ideology. Period. It really doesn't matter what the "TRUE" interpretation of the Bible is/was.
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Djord Original500© Member 
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Blackhawk wrote: "Between yourself and Iwog, you constantly drag Christianity into the gutter to satisfy your atheistic beliefs. And guess what Christians will not behead you for it, I for one only have sorrow for you, because of your obvious hatred towards God.I really hope both of you find peace in your lifetime, and not find out what it is all about to late." Traditional Christian with what, the new revised values? I to am Christian,and a follower of the old testament. Mainstream I do not like the term, but my church traces it's roots to roman times, the beginning. As far as being politicians, is it wrong for a priest to condemn what goes contrary to the teachings of the church to his parishioners?There are many who call themselves christians, but act in manners that are contrary to the teachings. For example the sanctioning of abortion and homosexuality, preclude me from voting democratic at least 99 percent of the time. I put my vote where my beliefs stand, and where I believe the country will benefit the most,the two are harmonious. Last edited on 03:52 pm by Djord |
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Iwog Pioneer100© Member
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Djord wrote: Traditional Christian with what, the new revised values? I to am Christian,and a follower of the old testament. Mainstream I do not like the term, but my church traces it's roots to roman times, the beginning. As far as being politicians, is it wrong for a priest to condemn what goes contrary to the teachings of the church to his parishioners?There are many who call themselves christians, but act in manners that are contrary to the teachings. For example the sanctioning of abortion and homosexuality, preclude me from voting democratic at least 99 percent of the time. I put my vote where my beliefs stand, and where I believe the country will benefit the most,the two are harmonious. You don't follow the old testament. Exodus 22:18 instructs you to kill witches. Leviticus 20:13 instructs you to kill homosexuals. Better get to work..........
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DesertRat Forum-Blogger© Pioneer100© Member 
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Iwog wrote: That's all very interesting, however it was the Southern Baptists who were using the Bible to justify slavery. Therefore the meaning of the word was changed to reflect the morality of the time. Remember your question? Can you provide me any articles or speeches or other material that proves your statement?
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Iwog Pioneer100© Member
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There is plenty of material on the subject, it's just not necessarily on the web. The Southern Baptist church was formed to oppose a movement in the north to abolish slavery. They wrote volumes supporting slavery and many Baptist writings in the 1840's and 1850's cited Biblical support for slavery. One of the founding fathers of the Southern Baptist convention was Basil Manly. He used to preach that scripture supported slavery and was one of the main players. The book you're looking for is called "Noah's Curse: The Biblical Justification of American Slavery" (Oxford University Press, 2001) There's your answer. Interpretations of the Bible have always changed to reflect society and morality. Christians have used the Bible for everything from Slavery, to burning witches, to killing jews. I'm sorry this doesn't fit with your preconceived notions, but the truth doesn't really care about preconceived notions.
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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but my church traces it's roots to roman times, the beginning. As far as being politicians, is it wrong for a priest to condemn what goes contrary to the teachings of the church to his parishioners? Djord - - so since your church "traces its roots to Roman times" that means that You're a Catholic, right? If you claim to be in a church that goes back to Roman times, then either: --you're a Catholic --or your church leaders decided that every Christian priest and bishop (mostly Catholics) prior to them was an apostate and was misleading the people into believing things that YOUR church believes are NOT in the Bible, right? Which would mean that by definition of believing in 'your particular church', therefore you believe that Agnus Dei and the other Catholics on here are NOT real Christians, since they do not interpret the Bible as 'correctly' as your church does, and Christ does not forgive acts of pride like interpreting His Book in an incorrect manner? Most folks who believe differently than the 'official' Catholic church, of ancient days will clearly state that they've chosen a different route-- and do NOT claim to be in any way related to any of the ancient churches-- since they've 'seen the errors' inherent in the prior interpretations of the Bible... That's pretty much how Protestants view it-- they do not claim to be 'related' to anything prior to Martin Luther, for the most part...
Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member  Playing to a different drummer
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I am constantly amazed by those who are unbelievers yet spend much of thier days focusing on and discussing the one who they don't believe in?
There's a saying. If you want someone to love you forever, buy a dog, feed it and keep it around. Dick Dale |
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AgnusDei Pioneer100© Member 
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Sirlamre, I think you misunderstand the canonical history and the nature of tradition in both the Protestant and Catholic Churches.
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AgnusDei Pioneer100© Member
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That's pretty much how Protestants view it-- they do not claim to be 'related' to anything prior to Martin Luther, for the most part... No.
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AgnusDei Pioneer100© Member
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Most folks who believe differently than the 'official' Catholic church, of ancient days will clearly state that they've chosen a different route-- and do NOT claim to be in any way related to any of the ancient churches-- since they've 'seen the errors' inherent in the prior interpretations of the Bible... No, that's incorrect. The "Reformation" means just that -- an attempt by Protestants (Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, etc.) to reform the church and return to authentic, historical Christianity.
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AgnusDei Pioneer100© Member
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Iwog wrote: Djord wrote:Traditional Christian with what, the new revised values? I to am Christian,and a follower of the old testament. Mainstream I do not like the term, but my church traces it's roots to roman times, the beginning. As far as being politicians, is it wrong for a priest to condemn what goes contrary to the teachings of the church to his parishioners?There are many who call themselves christians, but act in manners that are contrary to the teachings. For example the sanctioning of abortion and homosexuality, preclude me from voting democratic at least 99 percent of the time. I put my vote where my beliefs stand, and where I believe the country will benefit the most,the two are harmonious. Iwog, Those verses do not say what you claim they do.
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AgnusDei Pioneer100© Member
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For example the sanctioning of abortion and homosexuality, preclude me from voting democratic at least 99 percent of the time. I put my vote where my beliefs stand, and where I believe the country will benefit the most; the two are harmonious. Amen.
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pmh1nic Pioneer100© Member 
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"There is plenty of material on the subject, it's just not necessarily on the web." And it's probably difficult to find anything related to the support of slavery by Christians because very few actually support it. In addition as DesertRat pointed out you're using your western mentality, molded by the American experience of African-American slavery, in trying to understand what the meaning of the word is as used in the Bible. If you would take the time to read the context of the many passages in which the is translated slave or slavery in the King James version of the Bible you would understand that the Bible does not condone slavery.
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