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Iwog Pioneer100© Member 
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AgnusDei wrote: Iwog wrote:Djord wrote:Traditional Christian with what, the new revised values? I to am Christian,and a follower of the old testament. Mainstream I do not like the term, but my church traces it's roots to roman times, the beginning. As far as being politicians, is it wrong for a priest to condemn what goes contrary to the teachings of the church to his parishioners?There are many who call themselves christians, but act in manners that are contrary to the teachings. For example the sanctioning of abortion and homosexuality, preclude me from voting democratic at least 99 percent of the time. I put my vote where my beliefs stand, and where I believe the country will benefit the most,the two are harmonious. They mean exactly what I claim they do. The Old Testament is dripping with blood and death and rape and killing and war and strife and hate and other lovely tidbits. God apparently finds it just to murder first born kids in Egypt. Why? Because God hardened the Pharoh's heart, changing his mind repeatedly every time he wanted to let the Jewish slaves go. And so it goes. Christians will always change interpretations to fit their agendas. They've done it for 2000 years.
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carew4me Original500© Member 
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: I am constantly amazed by those who are unbelievers yet spend much of thier days focusing on and discussing the one who they don't believe in? Then you fail to understand that to secular progressive's, anti-religion IS THEIR religion. They react to believers in the same way that islamo-facist react to non-muslims. You, the believer, are the infidel in their self-centered "what feels good to me" world. Your understanding of moral absolutes are a threat to their god-less and empty souls. it reminds them that they have no real purpose on earth other than consumption and pleasure. Last edited on 08:36 pm by carew4me |
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Djord Original500© Member 
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Iwog wrote: Djord wrote:Traditional Christian with what, the new revised values? I to am Christian,and a follower of the old testament. Mainstream I do not like the term, but my church traces it's roots to roman times, the beginning. As far as being politicians, is it wrong for a priest to condemn what goes contrary to the teachings of the church to his parishioners?There are many who call themselves christians, but act in manners that are contrary to the teachings. For example the sanctioning of abortion and homosexuality, preclude me from voting democratic at least 99 percent of the time. I put my vote where my beliefs stand, and where I believe the country will benefit the most,the two are harmonious. Actually we are asked to be tolerant of the individual and not their actions. In other words people are inherently good, it is their thoughts or actions that are bad. I would rather stick with convincing homosexuals and witches why their behavior is bad rather than burning or killing them.So from my perspective democrats are in fact good people, but they inherently do bad things. There comes a time when burning and killing is in fact necessary such as the the imposition of Shariah upon the civilized world,or to contain evil that will consume all known civilization. Thanks for your input though, as twisted as your logic may be!
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coinmickey Guest
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There comes a time when burning and killing is in fact necessary such as the the imposition of Shariah upon the civilized world,or to contain evil that will consume all known civilization. Wait, you wrote the above and you say Iwog has a "twisted logic"? Surely you cannot be serious, can you?  
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Djord Original500© Member
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coinmickey wrote: There comes a time when burning and killing is in fact necessary such as the the imposition of Shariah upon the civilized world,or to contain evil that will consume all known civilization. So in other words your saying we should cut and run and let America be damned? We are talking about war with that statement, something your party needs to address rather than hold the white flag. Is that what you meant?
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member  Playing to a different drummer
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carew4me wrote: JustifiedByFaith wrote:Dear carew4me,I am constantly amazed by those who are unbelievers yet spend much of thier days focusing on and discussing the one who they don't believe in? You have consolidated the truth into a harsh yet fully understandable paragraph. 
 There's a saying. If you want someone to love you forever, buy a dog, feed it and keep it around. Dick Dale |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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Heh.. Not according to the documents I read years ago laying out the reasons the Presbyterian church founders LEFT the Catholic church... They didn't consider the Catholic bishops to be all that much worth listening to or considering them to be 'good' people --- considering that the Catholic Church AND the Anglican church were persecuting the Scottish founders of the Presbyterian church AgnusDei wrote: Sirlamre,
Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. |
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AgnusDei Pioneer100© Member 
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sirlamre wrote: Heh.. Show me the documents.
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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Exactly --- PRIOR to any Roman Catholic church--- prior to the existence OF a 'church' in many senses of the term as it was used in the last 1500 years... "Church", only in the sense of the first hundred years or so--- not anything LIKE the meaning of 'church' that came about in Constantinople and Rome in centuries to follow. The 'church' as it was defined by even Constantinople and certainly by Rome was most certainly PRECISELY what ML and others to follow were talking about abandoning completely in their desire to return to early values.... Just as 'true' fundamentalists are today-- though they are a tiny minority of the 'activist conservatives' in Christianity who =claim= untruthfully to be representing the values of Christ (who never ONCE attempted to influence the legislators of His day) AgnusDei wrote: Most folks who believe differently than the 'official' Catholic church, of ancient days will clearly state that they've chosen a different route-- and do NOT claim to be in any way related to any of the ancient churches-- since they've 'seen the errors' inherent in the prior interpretations of the Bible...
Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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I would vote along the same lines for the same reasons, if I didn't believe that politicians on BOTH sides are far too corrupt for it to make much of a difference in the long run. Rather than attempting to vote in politicians who =claim= untruthfully to represent my values, I spend my time believing that God will change human hearts... ..and that laws enforced upon people by men are NOT how God envisioned His Will being done... since Christ never said "Elect politicians who will enforce My Law; don't worry about whether the people's souls are saved, force them to obey anyway" AgnusDei wrote: For example the sanctioning of abortion and homosexuality, preclude me from voting democratic at least 99 percent of the time. I put my vote where my beliefs stand, and where I believe the country will benefit the most; the two are harmonious.
Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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"And it's probably difficult to find anything related to the support of slavery by Christians because very few actually support it." That was VERY far from the truth in the 1800s -- hence MY comment earlier about people interpreting the Bible to suit their desired outcome being the problem --- not different versions of the Bible being around.
Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. |
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AgnusDei Pioneer100© Member
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Iwog wrote: AgnusDei wrote:Iwog wrote:Djord wrote:Traditional Christian with what, the new revised values? I to am Christian,and a follower of the old testament. Mainstream I do not like the term, but my church traces it's roots to roman times, the beginning. As far as being politicians, is it wrong for a priest to condemn what goes contrary to the teachings of the church to his parishioners?There are many who call themselves christians, but act in manners that are contrary to the teachings. For example the sanctioning of abortion and homosexuality, preclude me from voting democratic at least 99 percent of the time. I put my vote where my beliefs stand, and where I believe the country will benefit the most,the two are harmonious. Iwog, Again, you misunderstand the verses you use as proof. God did not literally "harden" the Pharaoh's heart; rather, he withheld spiritual grace.
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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Go look in any Protestant seminary library. I can't say they're on the Web, but I was taught (when a Presbyterian) that we didn't 'leave' the Catholic church because we LIKED those people--- rather, because we considered them to be the PROBLEM... not at all the solution. the desire to 'reform' the Roman Catholic church DID NOT come about because everyone agreed on how incredibly pure the leadership of Rome was, and how incredibly accurate the interpretations of the Bible done in Rome were.... Rather the opposite... Protestants DO NOT agree with the interpretation of the Bible as it's done by Rome --- if they did, they'd still be Catholics... And the Catholics have NOT been nice about that: AgnusDei wrote: sirlamre wrote:Heh..
Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. |
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Iwog Pioneer100© Member
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AgnusDei wrote: Iwog wrote:They mean exactly what I claim they do. The Old Testament is dripping with blood and death and rape and killing and war and strife and hate and other lovely tidbits. Wow, that's a new one. So please explain why the Bible is so horribly written, that it has God "withholding spiritual grace" every time the Pharoh decides to let the Jewish slaves go, and the Pharoh immediately changes his mind and decides to keep them again?? (repeatedly) Strange how the Bible would go to so much work to make it look like God was changing Pharoh's mind each time. Isn't that where the term "change of heart" came from? You really think anyone believes your nonsense interpretation? Or perhaps you just cannot allow yourself to consider the implications of what the Bible really says?
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AgnusDei Pioneer100© Member
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sirlamre wrote:
Sirlamre, Again, that's bad theology. The first Church WAS Catholic. It was built upon the "rock" of Peter (Matthew 16:18) such that the "gates of hell would not prevail against it". Furthermore, it was given the ability to teach authoritatively through the wisdom and guidance of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 16:19). This is the Church that St. Paul refers to in 2 Thessalonians 2:15 when he tells all Christians to "hold fast to Tradition" in both written and oral form. During the early 16th century was when Luther (then an Augustinian priest) protested against some of the practices of the Catholic Church. Backed by powerful German princes who sought control of Catholic lands and wealth, he initially rewrote key verses of the Bible according to his personal interpretations. Later in his life, Luther deeply regretted the divisions he had created in Christianity and realized it would have been better to remain unified with the Catholic Church. The word Catholic simply means "universal" and the word "Rome" is important because that is where apostolic authority was originally concentrated as well as where Peter, the first Pope, was martyred. Therefore, it would be theologically errant to claim that early (or even later) Christians were not "Roman Catholic".
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