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AgnusDei Pioneer100© Member 
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Iwog wrote: AgnusDei wrote:Iwog wrote:They mean exactly what I claim they do. The Old Testament is dripping with blood and death and rape and killing and war and strife and hate and other lovely tidbits. Iwog, Some very good questions. The Egyptian Pharaoh had such pride (a mortal sin) that he refused to subject himself to God, despite the fact that God had aptly demonstrated his greater power. This pride (call it arrogance if you wish) was what caused him to be completely closed to God's grace. Although God is infinitely merciful he does not force his grace or wisdom upon others; they have to ask for it. This is what the OT verses mean when they say that God hardened the Pharaoh’s heart. Think of it as a literary device commonly used by Hebrew authors writing thousands of years before Christ. And although it may be "foreign" or unusual to us to understand such an "arcane" usage, I'm quite certain that many of our popular sayings today would be just as foreign to the ancient Jews or Egyptians. Still, it would not be semantically accurate or theologically prudent to change words or phrases from how they were originally rendered in the OT. Hence, they are preserved, which necessitates a considerable study and understanding of the chief languages used in the Bible (Hebrew, Aramaic and Coine Greek) as well as the prevailing cultures of the time before one attempts to pursue a literal reading of Biblical texts...especially those in the OT. Finally, I am not the only one with this interpretation. It was a consensus among the early Church fathers and is still widely held by theological scholars today.
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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Umm.. then how do you explain this document "Dominus Iesus" AgnusDei wrote: sirlamre wrote:
 Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. |
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Impedimentus Original500© Member  Terricolous Creature
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Agnes Dei wrote: The word Catholic simply means "universal" and the word "Rome" is important because that is where apostolic authority was originally concentrated as well as where Peter, the first Pope, was martyred. Therefore, it would be theologically errant to claim that early (or even later) Christians were not "Roman Catholic". _____________________________________________________________________ Another distortion of Christian history. First, the Church is the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Rome was one of the original patriarchal churches. The FIRST was Jerusalem! Christ was never in Rome, Our Savior founded the Church in Jerusalem! This distortion of history is yet another of many examples where Agnes Dei has twisted and distorted history to give the Roman Church more significance that it possesses. It is typical example of the arrogance and ignorance found among radical Roman Catholic fanatics. The Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, the Church of the Seven Councils, historically originated in Jerusalem, where Christ was crucified. Later, Rome, Alexandria, Antioch and Constantinople (New Rome), along with Jerusalem, became the main patriarchal centers of the Christian Church. When Rome separated itself from the True Church through schism, in an effort to justify its schismatic and irregular journey away from the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, it created a warped interpretation of history to claim false hierarchical precedence over the other Christian Churches. While many in the Roman Church realize this error, a few fanatics continue to distort history, furthering schism and acting as shining examples of the arrogance that the irregular Roman Church has been guilty of for hundreds of years. The Orthodox Churches (The Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church) continue to pray that hierarchy of an arrogant and imperial schismatic church will return to the fold of the True Church of Christ. While the Orthodox churches understand that the Roman Church, if it were to atone for its many historical sins, would deserve a special place of honor at any ecumenical council, the Orthodox also understand that Rome will not again occupy that place of honor until it humbles itself before the True Church of Christ, The One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, and repents for its many sins. The Roman Church abrogated any special place it honor it possesses as the See of Peter when it violated the tenants of the Ecumenical Councils, fell into schism and fell away from the True Church of Christ. The Protestant Reformation is purely a product of the Roman Church, it has nothing to do with the history of the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church as it occurred after Rome's schism from the True Church of Christ, heh. <many historical sins>   Last edited on 04:58 am by Impedimentus |
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DesertRat Forum-Blogger© Pioneer100© Member 
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Just curious. Do Catholics pay much attention to the book of Galatians?
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member  Playing to a different drummer
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DesertRat wrote: Just curious. Do Catholics pay much attention to the book of Galatians? Those who I know to be Catholic say that the church doesn't "encourage" them to study the scriptures but to "adhere to the Church", the Pope & his interpretation and it's final authority. It's wholesale, harlotry in my opinion.
There's a saying. If you want someone to love you forever, buy a dog, feed it and keep it around. Dick Dale |
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Djord Original500© Member 
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: DesertRat wrote:Just curious. Do Catholics pay much attention to the book of Galatians? I agree with that interpretation. Our problem has always been with the Pope and some of the biblical teachings. Although we consider the Pope one of the lost Patriarchs he is not The Patriarch, and embraces the views of the west. Hopefully some day they will come back into the fold.
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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Wow... I actually :exactly::ditto:  with Djord on something...The RCC is definitely NOT the bastion of Christianity... Djord wrote: JustifiedByFaith wrote:DesertRat wrote:Just curious. Do Catholics pay much attention to the book of Galatians?
Turn thou unto God and say: O my Sovereign Lord! I am but a vassal of Thine, and Thou art, in truth, the King of kings. I have lifted my suppliant hands unto the heaven of Thy grace and Thy bounties. |
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AgnusDei Pioneer100© Member
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DesertRat wrote: Just curious. Do Catholics pay much attention to the book of Galatians? I can't answer for everyone but I do and many who attend my Church do. In fact, there is a regular Bible study group which reads and examines both the OT and NT.
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AgnusDei Pioneer100© Member
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: DesertRat wrote:Just curious. Do Catholics pay much attention to the book of Galatians? I would suggest that "those who [you] know to be Catholic" are confused, not familiar with Church Doctrine or nominal (cafeteria) Catholics. In fact, the opposite is true with respect to Scriptural exegesis -- the Church has always taught that Sacred Tradition and Holy Scripture are inseparable and essential. Also, it is not "the Pope & his interpretation" which determines the proper understanding of Scripture. Rather it is the teachings of the Church fathers and the Church Councils which are part of the Ordinary Magisterium. The Pope alone is not infallible when teaching about faith and morals EXCEPT when he speaks ex cathedra OR when he teaches as part of the Extraordinary Magisterium (i.e., in the form of Encyclicals, Papal Bulls, etc.)
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AgnusDei Pioneer100© Member
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Although we consider the Pope one of the lost Patriarchs he is not The Patriarch, and embraces the views of the west. Can you give me some examples of the "western views" that Benedict XVI embraces?
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Playing to a different drummer
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AgnusDei wrote: JustifiedByFaith wrote:DesertRat wrote:Just curious. Do Catholics pay much attention to the book of Galatians? Dear AgnusDei, They fall under the (cafeteria) catagory as you described. Although I have numerous disagreements with Catholic Doctrines, Teaching & Practices...I will save those matters for a later time or an upcoming new thread.
There's a saying. If you want someone to love you forever, buy a dog, feed it and keep it around. Dick Dale |
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Impedimentus Original500© Member Terricolous Creature
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: AgnusDei wrote:JustifiedByFaith wrote:DesertRat wrote: It is the teachings of the Church fathers and the Seven Ecumenical councils that determine the proper understanding of Holy Scripture. Since the Roman Church split from the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church with its schismatic and irregular teachings, including changing the wording of the Nicene Creed and arbitrarily, and with NO AUTHORITY claiming the heretical doctrine of papal infallibility, the Roman Church cannot claim any legitimate role within the True Church of Christ. By ignoring the very canons that the Roman Church had agreed to in the Seven Councils it has shown itself to be an irregular institution with no legitimate claim to speak for the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Arrogant Rome's desperate and transparent insistence that the passage "You are Peter and on this rock I will build my Church" exonerates it from heretical, schismatic and irregular behavior and actions is nothing more than a lame attempt by to justify the unjustifiable. By separating itself from orthodoxy Rome has rendered invalid any claim to leadership, and it has forsaken its historical and traditional place of honor as “first among equals” at any future ecumenical councils. The Roman Church it is solely responsible for the schism that divides the Church. The Roman Church can return to orthodoxy by showing humility, asking for forgiveness, and by renouncing its schismatic teachings. <Arrogant> Last edited on 11:19 pm by Impedimentus |
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Djord Original500© Member
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Impedimentus I agree, but there will be a time of reconciliation and the world will change forever. Attachment: (Downloaded times)
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Playing to a different drummer
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Djord wrote: ImpedimentusWho's that Djord? The picture I mean... Lord have mercy...  Last edited on 11:54 pm by JustifiedByFaith There's a saying. If you want someone to love you forever, buy a dog, feed it and keep it around. Dick Dale |
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AgnusDei Pioneer100© Member
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Imp, The majority of your assertions are unsupported by both Holy Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Although all of the Eleven were given the power to "loose and bind" (Mathew 18:18, John 20:23) only Peter was given the "keys to the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 16:18). Only he, as Pope and Christ's Prime Minister on earth, was given the ultimate authority to teach infallibly. Only he was the "rock" upon which Christ's Church was built (Matthew 16:18). This designation and the power given to him by Christ were further guaranteed by the Holy Spirit ("the gates of the netherworld will not prevail against it") and has been passed on apostolically, in an unbroken succession, from one Pope to the next. Peter had this power and authority and so does Benedict XVI. However, none of the Patriarchs of the Orthodox Church do. They are merely bishops of their respective cities. This is why 1 Timothy 3:14 refers to the Catholic Church alone as the "pillar and foundation of truth." I think you are too mired in the argument of which ancient Christian city had the most authority and miss the central point of apostolic theology. No matter what city Peter and the other Popes resided in, the ultimate power given to them alone by Christ resided with their Papacy and the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. Ubi Petrus, Ibi Ecclesia
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