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| Moderated by: 24HourNut | Page:   1 2 3 |
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Erinna1112 Original500© Member  Witty clever title pending
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Cars wrote: Erinna1112 wrote:Never assume, Cars. There are more than two choices. I haven't missed an election since I was eligible to vote. There are choices other than the two major parties.
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation 
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24HourNut wrote: UsedToRide wrote:Well, here's an opinion that won't be popular among the women. I don't think a woman in the White House is a good idea. Women react mostly out of emotion and you can't press a magic button and make that all go away. Whether it was a no-no is a matter that's still being adjudicated. And, in my opinion, doing the right thing for the wrong reason is still doing the right thing. Leaving alone the stuff that he's merely accused of, the stuff the brother-in-law has admitted to (e.g., tasering his stepson) ought to be enough to end his career as a police officer. I think "Troopergate" will turn out to be much ado about nothing.
 "It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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24HourNut Administrator  Body pillows rock!
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Sirlamre, pretty cute  Brian: "Troopergate" was funny! Did you make that up?
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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Cars Original500© Member  Love Living Large
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Erinna1112 wrote: Cars wrote:Erinna1112 wrote:Never assume, Cars. There are more than two choices. Good for you, I too have never missed voting in a Presidential election! So, you're considering Baldwin or Barr??
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation
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24HourNut wrote: Brian: "Troopergate" was funny! Did you make that up? Alas, I can't take credit for that one, Frank.  That's what the Alaskan press calls it.
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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OK. I wouldn't have been too surprised if you had. You're smart like that. Smartypants, too.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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Erinna1112 Original500© Member Witty clever title pending
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Brian wrote: Whether it was a no-no is a matter that's still being adjudicated. So...the ends justify the means, Brian? Or am I misreading what you're saying here?
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation
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Erinna1112 wrote: Brian wrote:Whether it was a no-no is a matter that's still being adjudicated. I wasn't really talking about ends vs. means, Erinna. I was talking about motivation. The motivation for doing good is secondary to the good that one does. How you go about it is a different matter entirely. If Palin had decided to remove him from the police force by having him whacked, this would be a very different conversation. But I don't think the facts before us right now support the idea that a) she was exerting more power than she was legally entitled to, or b) this guy had any business wearing a badge. If, as it now appears, she had the legal right to fire the safety commissioner, then her motivation for doing so is irrelevant.
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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Erinna1112 Original500© Member Witty clever title pending
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Thank you for the clarification, Brian, and I agree with you.
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Millennium Original500© Member  Walking the Thin Line
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"Oh, please. He's the second coming of GWB (just look at his voting record" It was as high as 95% and as low as 67%..the same as Bush...I know it's hard for some of you to understand this, not all of the legislation that crossed Bush's desk was bad..Hell, Obama voted with Bush over 49% of the time....when he actually took the bother to vote. One of the best know secrets is that Obama actually voted FOR Bush's energy policy... Sen. John McCain's record of working with Democrats easily outstrips Sen. Barack Obama's efforts with Republicans, according to an analysis by The Washington Times of their legislative records. Whether looking at bills they have led on or bills they have signed onto, Mr. McCain has reached across the aisle far more frequently and with more members than Mr. Obama since the latter came to the Senate in 2005. In fact, by several measures, Mr. McCain has been more likely to team up with Democrats than with members of his own party. Democrats made up 55 percent of his political partners over the last two Congresses, including on the tough issues of campaign finance and global warming. For Mr. Obama, Republicans were only 13 percent of his co-sponsors during his time in the Senate, and he had his biggest bipartisan successes on noncontroversial measures, such as issuing a postage stamp in honor of civil rights icon Rosa Parks. Last edited on 08:13 pm by Millennium |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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Brian wrote: If, as it now appears, she had the legal right to fire the safety commissioner, then her motivation for doing so is irrelevant. Uh... NO! Would YOU want to be fired from your job merely because your boss "wanted to that day" and had the "right" to fire you? There DOES have to be some sort of "reasonable cause" that meets standard published employement criteria that an employee _knows of_ before they sign employment papers. That being said -- it does sound like this guy should not be a cop any more -- Yes, there is such a thing as "at will" employment--- but ANYONE has rights to complain when they're fired for no reason, or the reasons for their firing are spread far and wide within an organization when it SHOULD be a closely held matter for HR and senior managers ONLY. The matter of her allowing her regular government office staff to go directly to the people just above this guy, bypassing the entire HR/Police Administration processes, not to mention allowing her FAMILY to call and ask about the status of things... ..does do a pretty good job of showing that she was NOT willing to abide by and deal with the situation through the existing policies and processes already in place. Granted, she can change those -- but at a certain point, that usually involves the legislature-- the fact that she and her staff attempted to bypass the normal channels of communication and policy within the Judicial Branch of the State of Alaska, and not only that, allowed family members access to the information gained from such bypassing.. that DOES indicate that "Troopergate" hat better not become a farce. If so, the laws, policies, and procedures in the State of Alaska (and other states) have just become worthless paper in the way of protecting employees from harassment and termination. And the quality of employees always suffers in the years after such a violation, when people who are honest don't WANT to work in a place known for allowing such things to happen. The fact that the guy might be guilty of something or other (probably is) does NOT make a case for allowing any variance or changes in how the policies and procedures and normal HR practices are handled internally to the State's offices. If she and her staff had simply done the normal written ask for reports, and kept such things confidential, known only to those people involved in HR processes, it'd be different. But they not only tried to influence the outcome, they passed information around to people NOT in the HR process whatsoever. I can almost guarantee you that the staff in this city's Mayor's office DOES NOT know a single thing about a potential employee termination --- that is very likely handled very privately between the Mayor and HR, and the department managers of the employee, and NO ONE else -- no secretaries or clerks or assistants or ANYBODY in the Mayor's office gets to know about it-- the flow of documents and information simply DOES NOT involve anyone outside HR other than the Mayor themselves. Our Mayor wou Last edited on 08:21 pm by sirlamre Armed with the power of Thy name nothing can ever hurt me, and with Thy love in my heart all the world's afflictions can in no wise alarm me. |
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Millennium Original500© Member Walking the Thin Line
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"The fact that the guy might be guilty of something or other (probably is) does NOT make a case for allowing any variance or changes in how the policies and procedures and normal HR practices are handled internally to the State's offices." I guess this means Obama, if he were to get elected, won't be firing any of the officials in the White house...???? This stuff happens quite often when there is a change of command, especially in the higher offices, you know that...The fact remains too many people up there approve of the job she has done....
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation
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Would YOU want to be fired from your job merely because your boss "wanted to that day" and had the "right" to fire you? The answer to that, of course, is "no". Then again, I wouldn't want to get pulled over and put in cuffs if I was drunk driving, either. Whether I would like it has nothing at all to do with whether or not it's legal, or even appropriate. sirlamre wrote:
As it regards to at will employment: My understanding is that an at will employee is exactly that: at the employer's will. Of course, there are some mitigating factors. Whistleblower laws prevent someone from being fired for that reason. People are similarly protected from age or disability bias (assuming, of course, that their age or disability doesn't prevent them from doing their job properly). But there's no such thing as "my employer doesn't like me" protection. Of course, a person can always complain about a firing. But that doesn't mean that the complaint automatically has merit. She might be guilty of getting outsiders involved in the process, but it's not (from what I can tell at this point) an abuse of her power as governor. If she had the legal power to fire the officer, then she had it. If that's the case, then she actually showed restraint. If she had the power to summarily fire him, and she didn't, then that's holding back her power.
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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Cars Original500© Member Love Living Large
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If Palin got to be prez because McCain went away for whatever reason, I believe many would be happy if she fired many of the ho-hum fat asses on the hill!!!
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mozeppa Pioneer100© Member  confused at birth and still is
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for 234 years men have run this country they've done in my estimate about 50% of "okay" women will do no worse and possibly better...I for one welcome it!
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