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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Religion & Philosophy > How Will The Christ Return A Second Time? |
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Popeyesays Guardian1000© Member
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muddawber wrote: None of those explanations will hold water. For you, of course, and I certainly am not trying to force anything down your throat. Believe as you will and stand responsible for what you choose to do, that's all that can be asked of anyone. Regards, Scott
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Popeyesays Guardian1000© Member
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muddawber wrote: Amy wrote:muddawber wrote:Then I shall ask you both, Free.man and popeyesays, if this so called christ of yours has returned, why is the world getting worse everyday. If we go by what you call the second coming, and apply the Bible to it, things should have gotten better by now. The way I see it, is that your Baha'u'llah or the Bible is lying. My vote goes to the Baha'u'llah as the liar. 1 John 4 Test the Spirits 1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. 4You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit[a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood.  Regards, scott
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Popeyesays Guardian1000© Member
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"All blessings are divine in origin, but none can be compared with this power of intellectual investigation and research, which is an eternal gift producing fruits of unending delight. Man is ever partaking of these fruits. All other blessings are temporary; this is an everlasting possession. Even sovereignty has its limitations and overthrow; this is a kingship and dominion which none may usurp or destroy. Briefly, it is an eternal blessing and divine bestowal, the supreme gift of God to man. Therefore, you should put forward your most earnest efforts toward the acquisition of science and arts. The greater your attainment, the higher your standard in the divine purpose. The man of science is perceiving and endowed with vision, whereas he who is ignorant and neglectful of this development is blind. The investigating mind is attentive, alive; the callous and indifferent mind is deaf and dead. A scientific man is a true index and representative of humanity, for through processes of inductive reasoning and research he is informed of all that appertains to humanity, its status, conditions and happenings. He studies the human body politic, understands social problems and weaves the web and texture of civilization. In fact, science may be likened to a mirror wherein the infinite forms and images of existing things are revealed and reflected. It is the very foundation of all individual and national development. Without this basis of investigation, development is impossible. Therefore, seek with diligent endeavour the knowledge and attainment of all that lies within the power of this wonderful bestowal." ("The Promulgation of Universal Peace: Talks Delivered by `Abdu'l-Bahá during His Visit to the United States and Canada in 1912" (Wilmette: Bahá'í Publishing Trust, 1982), p. 50) Regards, Scott
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member  Without Jesus we fall short...
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http://www.cynet.com/jesus/Prophecy/teaching.htm Jesus' Teaching Concerning His Second Coming As we seek to understand more about what the Holy Scriptures teach concerning Jesus' Second Coming, I think it most prudent to concentrate initially on what the blessed Savior said concerning His Second Coming: "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" - verse 3b The very first thing that the Wonderful Counselor states is a warning:
Jesus re-states His warning three additional times in this particular discourse:
In Matthew chapter 24, Jesus reiterates no other single thought so many times. There is only one defense against the very pressing danger of being deceived by false Christs, and false prophets.
 Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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Bible Question: Who can tell me in Matthew chapter 24 what Jesus said would be the way for us to distinguish between His coming and the way a false christ would come?
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Popeyesays Guardian1000© Member
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: Bible Question: Here's the chapter in its entirety as is appropriate for the discussion: 1Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2"Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down." 3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" 4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[a]' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains. 9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. 15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,'[b] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. 22If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time. 26"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather. 29"Immediately after the distress of those days " 'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[c] 30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. 32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d]is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. The Day and Hour Unknown 36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. 42"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him. 45"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, 'My master is staying away a long time,' 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. --------------------------------------------------------- Want to take them in order or did you wish to skip around? Regards, Scott
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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Popeyesays wrote: JustifiedByFaith wrote:Bible Question: Proceed Scott.
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Popeyesays Guardian1000© Member
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"1Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2"Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down." " Here Jesus is refering to TWO Temples. The stones of the Holy Temple in Jerusalem and His own body? Do we agree on that? Regards, Scott
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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He spoke about His body that would be raised in three days in another conversation but here Jesus was referring to the desolation and future destruction of Jerusalem... so maybe you have His reference to His body confused here with another text?
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Popeyesays Guardian1000© Member
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: He spoke about His body that would be raised in three days in another conversation but here Jesus was referring to the desolation and future destruction of Jerusalem... so maybe you have His reference to His body confused here with another text? No, I am confusing nothing, but because one Gospel makes one reference and another makes another does not make much difference, does it? Surely Jesus was intelligent enough to know that His words would have layers of meaning. BUt if you wish, limit it to the destruction of the Temple and the Diaspora if you like. You're next. . . . . Regards, Scott
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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No please continue. We are ready to move forward into the next verses in Matthew 24 now.
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Popeyesays Guardian1000© Member
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: No please continue. We are ready to move forward into the next verses in Matthew 24 now. " 3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" 4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[a]' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains. " Deceit works both ways--one can deceive by announcing Prophethood or by denying claims to Prophethood. One must watch out for both. To me He seems to warn about following someone who announces he IS Jesus. That would be patently false since only one human being could claim to be the physical Jesus of Nazareth. He warns us not to get concerned with natural disasters and wars and rumors of war--those things being with always, they are useless to watch out for. I find it interesting He equates these events with birth pains rather than signs of the end. Your turn? Regards, Scott
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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Popeyesays wrote: To me He seems to warn about following someone who announces he IS Jesus. That would be patently false since only one human being could claim to be the physical Jesus of Nazareth. " 3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" #1. It is important to note that in verse 3 they wanted to know the "sign" of His coming, not plural "signs". In other words, "Jesus when will you come and how will we know?...what will be the clue for us that it's YOU?" 1st century Greek meaning: "Sign" 1) a sign, mark, token a) that by which a person or a thing is distinguished from others and is known b) a sign, prodigy, portent, i.e. an unusual occurrence, transcending the common course of nature 1) of signs portending remarkable events soon to happen 2) of miracles and wonders by which God authenticates the men sent by him, or by which men prove that the cause they are pleading is God's So again, they were asking Him, "Lord, give us the clue that will distinguish you from someone else. Please continue to verse 4 if you agree with the translation of verse 3 as I stated. Last edited on 02:04 pm by JustifiedByFaith Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Popeyesays Guardian1000© Member
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: Popeyesays wrote:To me He seems to warn about following someone who announces he IS Jesus. That would be patently false since only one human being could claim to be the physical Jesus of Nazareth. If that is so why does He give three signs. Actually it's more than three throughout the chapter, but the three essential signs are: The Gospel preached unto all nations. The end of the Abomination of Desolation, and the return of Jews. Then certain heavenly signs, which are impossible to be heavenly signs, but are in essence spiritual signs. The Book of Daniel will be an interesting discussion, I am sure. Regards, Scott
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