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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Religion & Philosophy > How Will The Christ Return A Second Time? |
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Popeyesays Guardian1000© Member
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: John explained the "spirit of antichrist" in the world. The spirit of unbelief as Paul say's that works among the children of disobedience. The Apostle Paul, Jesus and Daniel speak of a "person" Scott. Therefore, it is impossible to spiritual this one. You either have to leave this one alone for what it say's or we have a gridlock that needs to be dealt with? Gimme a citation. Regards, Scott
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member  Without Jesus we fall short...
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Do you want to work through this one and move forward or insist that the word "he" as the bible say's doesn't mean "he"?
 Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Popeyesays Guardian1000© Member
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: Do you want to work through this one and move forward or insist that the word "he" as the bible say's doesn't mean "he"? So you insist "he" in Matthew and "he" elsewhere is the same thing everywhere? Show me a reference to "antichrist" in the Book of Daniel and I'll admit your point. Otherwise, no. Regards, Scott
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 Who is this person? And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe,tongue, and nation. All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." Revelation 13:5-8 Who is this person? “ And in the latter time of their kingdom, When the transgressors have reached their fullness, A king shall arise, Having fierce features, Who understands sinister schemes. His power shall be mighty, but not by his own power; He shall destroy fearfully, And shall prosper and thrive; He shall destroy the mighty, and also the holy people. “ Through his cunning He shall cause deceit to prosper under his rule; And he shall exalt himself in his heart. He shall destroy many in their prosperity. He shall even rise against the Prince of princes; But he shall be broken without human means. Daniel 8:23-25 Who is this person? Who is the Little Horn?
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Popeyesays Guardian1000© Member
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Cherry picking Daniel when there is a clear reference other than what you intend is silly. 18 While he was speaking to me, I was in a deep sleep, with my face to the ground. Then he touched me and raised me to my feet. 19 He said: "I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end. [b] 20 The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia. 21 The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between his eyes is the first king. 22 The four horns that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power. 23 "In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a stern-faced king, a master of intrigue, will arise. The king of Persia was Daryoosh, the shaggy goat Alexander and the four kingdoms were the Diodachi (Successors), Wikipedia: "Ultimately, the conflict was settled after the Battle of Ipsus in Phrygia in 301 BC. Alexander's empire was divided at first into four major portions: Cassander ruled in Macedon, Lysimachus in Thrace, Seleucus in Mesopotamia and Persia, and Ptolemy I Soter in the Levant and Egypt. Antigonus ruled for a while in Anatolia and Syria but was eventually defeated by the other generals at Ipsus (301 BC). Control over Indian territory passed to Chandragupta Maurya, the first Maurya emperor, who further expanded his dominions after a settlement with Seleucus." THat names five, but Antigonus Antipater did not last very long. He was the oldest of Alexander's generals to begin with. Regards, Scott
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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Wikipedia is not my guide. We can move on if you wish to the next verse and leave this one alone? The main point of this thread is getting closer as we proceed forward...
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Popeyesays Guardian1000© Member
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http://catholic-resources.org/Bible/History-HellenisticEra.htm http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-Diadochi.html http://www.bartleby.com/65/di/Diadochi.html http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Diadochi http://www.livius.org/di-dn/diadochi/diadochi.htm http://www.ancientlibrary.com/wcd/Diadochi http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861604362/Diadochi.html http://en.allexperts.com/e/d/di/diadochi.htm http://www.answers.com/topic/diadochi There are almost 28,000 more references on the internet without bothering with Wikipedia. I think you should check out some background material on the history of Palestine since you are obviously "history-impaired". If you're willing to set aside trying to put words into Matthews mouth we can proceed. Regards, Scott
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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Since we have been doing so well so far I am simply ready to proceed than to play bible ping-pong on this. Regardless of who or what is the abomination that causes desolation that will not change HOW Jesus said He would return. Let's proceed?
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Popeyesays Guardian1000© Member
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I'm willing to go on. Verse 14 is it? or fifteen now? Regards, Scott
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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The scripture also says in verse 15 "whoever reads, let him understand" therefore, maybe we better stick it out and study further before we progress?
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Popeyesays Guardian1000© Member
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To conclude: in the Book of Daniel, from the rebuilding of Jerusalem to the martyrdom of Christ, seventy weeks are appointed; for by the martyrdom of Christ the sacrifice is accomplished and the altar destroyed. This is a prophecy of the manifestation of Christ. These seventy weeks begin with the restoration and the rebuilding of Jerusalem, concerning which four edicts were issued by three kings. The first was issued by Cyrus in the year 536 B.C.; this is recorded in the first chapter of the Book of Ezra. The second edict, with reference to the rebuilding of Jerusalem, is that of Darius of Persia in the year 519 B.C.; this is recorded in the sixth chapter of Ezra. The third is that of Artaxerxes in the seventh year of his reign--that is, in 457 B.C.; this is recorded in the seventh chapter of Ezra. The fourth is that of Artaxerxes in the year 444 B.C.; this is recorded in the second chapter of Nehemiah. But Daniel refers especially to the third edict which was issued in the year 457 B.C. Seventy weeks make four hundred and ninety days. Each day, according to the text of the Holy Book, is a year. For in the Bible it is said: "The day of the Lord is one year." Therefore, four hundred and ninety days are four hundred and ninety years. The third edict of Artaxerxes was issued four hundred and fifty-seven years before the birth of Christ, and Christ when He was martyred and ascended was thirty-three years of age. When you add thirty-three to four hundred and fifty-seven, the result is four hundred and ninety, which is the time announced by Daniel for the manifestation of Christ. But in the twenty-fifth verse of the ninth chapter of the Book of Daniel this is expressed in another manner, as seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; and apparently this differs from the first saying. Many have remained perplexed at these differences, trying to reconcile these two statements. How can seventy weeks be right in one place, and sixty-two weeks and seven weeks in another? These two sayings do not accord. But Daniel mentions two dates. One of these dates begins with the command of Artaxerxes to Ezra to rebuild Jerusalem: this is the seventy weeks which came to an end with the ascension of Christ, when by His martyrdom the sacrifice and oblation ceased. The second period, which is found in the twenty-sixth verse, means that after the termination of the rebuilding of Jerusalem until the ascension of Christ, there will be sixty-two weeks: the seven weeks are the duration of the rebuilding of Jerusalem, which took forty-nine years. When you add these seven weeks to the sixty-two weeks, it makes sixty-nine weeks, and in the last week (69-70) the ascension of Christ took place. These seventy weeks are thus completed, and there is no contradiction. With me so far? Regards, Scott
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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The 70 weeks are not finished for Daniel's people. There is still 1 week remaining to: >Bring in everlasting righteousness and anoint the Most Holy.
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Popeyesays Guardian1000© Member
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: The 70 weeks are not finished for Daniel's people. Your count does not hold up, Mike. The eighth chapter of the Book of Daniel, verse thirteen, says. "Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?" Then he answered (v. 14): "Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed"; (v. 17) "But he said unto me ... at the time of the end shall be the vision." That is to say, how long will this misfortune, this ruin, this abasement and degradation last? meaning, when will be the dawn of the Manifestation? Then he answered, "Two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed." This means He appoints two thousand three hundred years, (Day for a Year). Then from the date of the issuing of the edict of Artaxerxes to rebuild Jerusalem until the day of the birth of Christ there are 456 years, and from the birth of Christ until the day of the manifestation of the Báb there are 1844 years. When you add 456 years to this number it makes 2300 years. That is to say, the fulfillment of the vision of Daniel took place in the year A.D. 1844, and this is the year of the Báb's manifestation according to the actual text of the Book of Daniel. Consider how clearly he determines the year of manifestation; there could be no clearer prophecy for a manifestation than this. In Matthew, chapter 24, verse 3, Christ says Daniel meant by this prophecy to be the date of the manifestation, and this is the verse: "As He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?" One of the explanations He gave them in reply was this (v. 15): "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)." In this answer He referred them to the eighth chapter of the Book of Daniel, saying that everyone who reads it will understand that it is this time that is spoken of. Is there a clearer foretelling spoken in the Old Testament and in the Gospel. To conclude, the date of Bahá'u'lláh is calculated according to lunar years from the mission and the Hejira of Muhammad; for in the religion of Muhammad the lunar year is in use, as also it is the lunar year which is employed concerning all commands of worship. In Daniel, chapter 12, verse 6, it is said: "And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by Him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half; and that when He shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished." I'm trying to keep this in reference to Matthew 24, but some digression appears to be necessary. Regards, Scott
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: The scripture also says in verse 15 "whoever reads, let him understand" therefore, maybe we better stick it out and study further before we progress? To me, that verse means that the verses are NOT to be taken at literal meaning, that they require spiritual understanding and prayer, and that a truly spiritual person will set aside what they THINK they know, and will in prayer and humility and with an empty cup, allow God to fill their hearts with something that God wants them to know-- Which, just as it was with the early Christians, may vary greatly from what the majority opinion on some Bible truth is --- Just as the early Christians had a "new understanding" of the OT verses once they accepted Christ, but the majority of the Jews, who were not humble, thought they knew what the OT meant --- and missed understanding and accepting Christ because their hearts and minds and "knowledge" stood between their souls and accepting Christ. The Christians "read and understood", the Jews merely read, and decided that they knew what it meant. Obviously, they were wrong.
Armed with the power of Thy name nothing can ever hurt me, and with Thy love in my heart all the world's afflictions can in no wise alarm me. |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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There are NUMEROUS interpretations and dates for starting points that one can make. One can also tweak this to fit for Baha'u'llah if crafted right. You can say that this is finished and completed and we are simply waiting for the return of Christ.
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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