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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Religion & Philosophy > How Will The Christ Return A Second Time? |
| Moderated by: 24HourNut | Page:   ... 25 26 27 28 29 30 31   |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member  Searching The Hearts Of Man
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For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 #1. The Lord is coming #2. The Lord Himself will descend from heaven #3. We will meet the Lord in the air #4. We will then always be with Him Is there another version I missed? 
 Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member  Official Forum Troublemaker
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What does the phrase "Alive and remain in the Lord" mean to you JBF? "remain in the Lord" pretty clearly means "still believing in and constant to Him, and aware of His Will and open to Him" But what does "alive" mean in that verse? It's not there by some mistake of translation, nor is it "just a word" === the concept of "a" AND "b" is meaningful somehow. And it's not just another way of saying "alive in Faith" because that's covered by "remain in the Lord" so far as meaning is concerned.
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Searching The Hearts Of Man
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sirlamre wrote: What does the phrase That is not correct sirlamre. The Apostle Paul just gave us the proper meaning in verse 15 by making the comparison.  1Th 4:15 "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep." He is comparing those who are dead in Christ or past on and those who are physically alive and still living in Christ. It is not simply meaning alive in faith but physically compared to those who have passed on as believers. This is where one needs to observe the text before and after to help assist in arriving at the proper meaning. You have "added" to the word here. Last edited on 02:25 pm by JustifiedByFaith Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Searching The Hearts Of Man
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 Let's try this again.  Out of the 70+- Guests watching currently...could one of you please "sign up" and come on to tell me how these verses have a "symbolic" meaning that needs a re-interpretation?Acts 1:9-11 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.” Daniel 7:13 “ I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him. Matthew 24:30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 26:63-64 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, “I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!” Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Revelation 1:7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Popeyesays Guardian1000© Member
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We're really talking about Matthew here, not Paul, but for the sake of discussion let's look at the chapter of Thessaqlonians in question: (NIV) "13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest, who have no hope. 14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord's word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words. " (YLT) " 13And I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, that ye may not sorrow, as also the rest who have not hope, 14for if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, so also God those asleep through Jesus he will bring with him, 15for this to you we say in the word of the Lord, that we who are living -- who do remain over to the presence of the Lord -- may not precede those asleep, 16because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first, 17then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be;" I do not see where this contradicts what Baha`u'llah tells us at all. Especially when sufficient context is applied. Regards, Scott
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Popeyesays Guardian1000© Member
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JBF says: Let's try this again. Out of the 70+- Guests watching currently...could one of you please "sign up" and come on to tell me how these verses have a "symbolic" meaning that needs a re-interpretation?---------------Doesn't seem to be a que required . . . . . . . . . though the more the merrier. Regards, Scott
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Searching The Hearts Of Man
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No one is able to take on such a task but the Bahai with the canned "It's Symbolic" approach.
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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24HourNut Administrator  aka Frank
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: No one is able to take on such a task but the Bahai with the canned "It's Symbolic" approach. Can you please explain why it is reasonable to not take Adam and Eve, talking snakes, or slugs brought from other continents onto an Ark literally ... and unreasonable to see this cloud-arriving Jesus stuff the same non-literal way? In other words, if it is reasonable to see much of the Bible as embellishments, why would we not take cloud arrival as such? It's not like the cloud stuff is said any more seriously than the talking snake or killing kids and non-believers.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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24HourNut wrote: JustifiedByFaith wrote:No one is able to take on such a task but the Bahai with the canned "It's Symbolic" approach. There's the problem literalists have. Talking snakes in trees handing out apples is supposedly NOT literal (unless you're an Appalachian backwoods preacher who handles snakes on Sundays). Jesus floating down out of the clouds and being visible instantly everywhere IS literal. (even to the crew of a submarine 1,000 feet down, there is suddenly a "sky" with "clouds" on the ceiling of their submarine. I wonder if Jesus floats down through the conning tower or the torpedo loading hatch?) I don't know how you figure the one to be symbolic and the other one literal either Frank. Last edited on 03:11 am by sirlamre |
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24HourNut Administrator aka Frank
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Good example with the submarine.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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yeah, there's a LOT about that which would be -really really- inconsistent with things.
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Aethelred Pioneer100© Member  Ye Olde Dead King
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Jesus floating down out of the clouds and being visible instantly everywhere IS literal. What verse are you talking about?
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Searching The Hearts Of Man
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sirlamre wrote: 24HourNut wrote:JustifiedByFaith wrote:No one is able to take on such a task but the Bahai with the canned "It's Symbolic" approach. Bible abuse is far less with a literalist than with those who "add" or "reduce" God's word. Bible twisting religions do not become what they are by taking God's word for what it actually say's... but for taking God's word and making it say something else.
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Searching The Hearts Of Man
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Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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24HourNut Administrator aka Frank
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The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Religion & Philosophy > How Will The Christ Return A Second Time? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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