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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Religion & Philosophy > A true story of Christianity and the long-running disagreements between sects... |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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The story of the very famous ladder on the Church which must be replaced every time it rots to pieces http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/1631/ladder.html I've heard a lot of stories about this ladder when I lived in Israel for several years- This is the most accurate one -- but the common story is that it was a disputed attempt to clean the windows of the Church I've seen it myself, of course, and have heard many stories about why it's there. That geocities site gives more information. Can you IMAGINE such disagreement over a LADDER! How sorrowful Christ must feel...
 Armed with the power of Thy name nothing can ever hurt me, and with Thy love in my heart all the world's afflictions can in no wise alarm me. |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member  Without Jesus we fall short...
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sirlamre wrote:
Very interesting. It's sad the reasons why the ladder remains and is untouched. It has a neat historical aspect along with a petty one of human selfishness and ridiculousness. Nice article sirlamre. 
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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Thanks!  Having lived for several years within an hours drive of Jeruasalem and the Galilee, and having learned Arabic and Hebrew (and since forgotten 90% of what I did know) , I've learned quite a few tidbits of history that you rarely find in the common history books for students or even graduate history. There's always little tidbits known by the locals and others which don't make it into the 'big official' histories.. often-times because they're embarassing or considered inconsequential -- but many times those tidbits of culture and history are very informative of the cultures that were involved. Last edited on 07:24 pm by sirlamre Armed with the power of Thy name nothing can ever hurt me, and with Thy love in my heart all the world's afflictions can in no wise alarm me. |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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sirlamre wrote: Thanks! I like stories like this. History is of interest to me and especially in that region of the world. 
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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I'll see what I can find. Historically speaking, have you ever read Ken Follet's Pillars of the Earth? I'm reading it now-- it's basically a highly fictionalized history of the Kingsbridge Cathedral in the 1100s. Not anything like a Michner, but good reading all the same... full of little details of monastic life
Armed with the power of Thy name nothing can ever hurt me, and with Thy love in my heart all the world's afflictions can in no wise alarm me. |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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sirlamre wrote: I'll see what I can find. No I have not sirlamre. I am kinda a boring type reader. I actually don't read much other than... Attachment: (Downloaded times)
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Impedimentus Original500© Member  Terricolous Creature
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"A true story of Christianity and the long-running disagreements between sects." Absolutely false! This sadly is a dispute between the Armenian Autocephalous Church and the Greek Orthodox Church. NEITHER are sects!!! They are both valid ancient and canonical chruches with valid apostolic successions. To call them Christian sects is both histiorically inaccurate and insulting. A dispute over property rights exits and that is sad, but to call them Chrisitan sects shows GREAT IGNORANCE! I would never refer to Baha'i as sects. I would hope they have the decency to show the same respect. If you don't know the history of the Christian Church, PLEASE take the time to look it up. Last edited on 01:11 am by Impedimentus |
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berinwitness Original500© Member
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Impedimentus wrote: the Armenian Autocephalous Church and the Greek Orthodox Church. NEITHER are sects!!! They are both valid ancient and canonical chruches with valid apostolic successions. To call them Christian sects is both histiorically inaccurate and insulting. Which of the two does Jesus Christ want everyone on Earth to belong to? If they are both canonical why are they separate, with different names? Why are they "Armenian" and "Greek" and not simply "Christian"? I would never refer to Bahi's as sects. It may be just meaningless quibbling but if you have such high regard for us why can't you be bothered to spell our name correctly?
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Impedimentus Original500© Member Terricolous Creature
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mispost - sorry Last edited on 01:18 am by Impedimentus |
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Impedimentus Original500© Member Terricolous Creature
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Impedimentus wrote: berinwitness wrote:Impedimentus wrote:the Armenian Autocephalous Church and the Greek Orthodox Church. NEITHER are sects!!! They are both valid ancient and canonical chruches with valid apostolic successions. To call them Christian sects is both histiorically inaccurate and insulting. My apologies for the typo, and that is all it was, a typo that I have corrected. As for the rest of your post, it demonstrates an ignorance of Christian history that I have no desire to address. I have always showed the Baha'i posters the greatest respect, but I can see that all of you are not worthy of respect  . I will not engage in any further discussions of this nature. I'm disappointed but I see I was incorrect in my views of (some) Baha'i posters. Enjoy your petty banter, heh.
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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Impedimentus wrote: "A true story of Christianity and the long-running disagreements between sects." My apologies Imp -- I didn't mean to get you upset, old slug! While "sects" may not be the correct term, they ARE "divisions" within Christianity, NONE of which were ever authorized by Christ, as far as I understand His intent, in that He never said "be different in your beliefs" As far as I can tell in reading the Bible, there should be only ONE Christianity, not many dozens of "churches" dating back to near the beginning and thousands of other "sects" later on. btw-- What defines a "sect" to you? Is there some form of illegitimacy for them that the "churches" do not have? I know you mentioned tracing apostolic succession -- but why are the various apostles permited to teach different Christianities from each other, such that there needs to be different Churches? Out of curiousity, do you see Biblical justification for the various Churches which do not all agree on the Bible? In your mind, did Christ intend that there be differences and not unity between believers? (as opposed to simply knowing that it would happen, which is different than 'planning' it ? I've asked JBF these questions, but dont know if I've ever asked you for your views..
Armed with the power of Thy name nothing can ever hurt me, and with Thy love in my heart all the world's afflictions can in no wise alarm me. |
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Impedimentus Original500© Member Terricolous Creature
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Sirlarme, I'm only replying to your post out of past respect for you. All of this stuff about what the Bible says about the Church is something for Biblical literalists (most of whom belong to sects) to quibble over. The Bible is not the Church. The Bible is part of the True Church of Christ and its contents (the canonical Bible) were determined by the True Church of Christ. Those Christian sects that are outside of the Church, that deny the historical and spiritual aspects of the Church, the works of the Church fathers and beauty of all of the writings of the Church have only Biblical literalism to fall back on. The Bible is not the foundation of Christianity, Christ and the Chruch of Christ are. I have no use for petty literalism. The Church interprets the Bible, not the other way around. Literalist have no historical context and hence they can only play games with the Bible - that is why they are sects - empty, spiritually void, sterile shells of Christianity. edited top add: As for homogeneity in form, the Church is not Mac Donalds. Have a good eveing. Please accept my apologies but I am done with this thread. Last edited on 01:56 am by Impedimentus |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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Impedimentus wrote:
In a vain attempt to regain your respected good graces, I'll agree with you!! Actually -- I really do agree, at least in part. There is much of the spirit of the Church that isn't found in the new fundamentalist literalist fear-uncertainty-doubt-fire-and-brimstone decay of the Church of Christ. I've been in a very large number of churches of all types both before and after becoming a Baha'i ---- and I have always felt more spirit in _most_ cases in the Apostolic Churches than in the new fundamentalist churches I would be equally willing to say that the Churches have done much that is of man over the centuries-- without getting into quibbling over which Churches and when, I'll just mention the selling of forgiveness of sins, the political involvements of the Church, etc But you're right--- much of the fundamentalist simplistic viewpoint is not very dissimilar emotionally and socially at least (if certainly different in outward actions based in belief) from the Taliban in their approach to what I'll call "being religious" == their view of Christianity and the practice of Christianity is based in control, strict obedience, narrow interpretation, and most of all, rather than a joyful spiritual loving approach, there is a feeling of judgementalism, separation, fear, control, and most of all, a lack of true spirituality that does not _ever_ allow for a hateful judgemental word. As I said, this is also quite similar emotionally, spiritually, and "practice-wise" to the way the Taliban interpreted Islam. But that form of Christianity as practiced by the so-called fundamentalists is not the one that I grew up loving and knowing in the ancient practices of the Episcopal Church, the Presbyterian Church, or the other Apostolic Churches True 'fundamentalism' as I have seen it is in the heart of the elderly black woman in a small Southern town, who simply loves Jesus and relies upon Him, who doesn't understand or have any time for all the divisivness, the judgementalism in the other so-called "fundamentalists". She has nothing but love in her heart for everyone she meets, whether they are from her church or not. Jesus is enough for her, and there need be no hatred of gays, judgemental attitudes, calls for fire and brimstone upon the unbelievers, and all the rest that goes with the evangelical screamers and shouters and rabble-rousers.
Armed with the power of Thy name nothing can ever hurt me, and with Thy love in my heart all the world's afflictions can in no wise alarm me. |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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Impedimentus wrote: mispost - sorry Which one? The last one or all of them. 
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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Impedimentus wrote:
What is the Church?
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Religion & Philosophy > A true story of Christianity and the long-running disagreements between sects... | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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