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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Religion & Philosophy > Moses, and Biblical incoherence about who went up the mountain... |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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I find this interesting... Upon reading the verses, I find that I must agree with the author-- the Bible DOES contradict itself here... So one of the sites that certain "religious" people here have quotes material out of is also STATING contradictions in the Bible... Interesting.... Here's the link to the below text: http://www.awitness.org/contrabib/torah/calfcmd.html Shows _many_ problems with Exodus... http://www.awitness.org/contrabib/torah/exodus.html <quote> Anyone who carefully reads Exodus Chapter 24 should notice that it both states that these people all went up the mountain and then later another editorial revision suggests that they did not, for only Moses went up the mountain. The original source incident contains a reference to the Sabbath tradition in that Moses was on the mountain for six days and met God on the seventh day, with a later editorial revision to refer to forty days (an attempt, like the comment on David's harp playing, made to reconcile inconsistent accounts). Note that first it is said that no one must go up the mountain with Moses. (Italics should not be necessary, but are included.)
However, a few verses later, bits and pieces from the earlier tradition surface (it is characteristic of the bizarre editing of the Bible that scraps were not thrown out, but rather an attempt was made to submerge and 'harmonize' the various conflicting accounts). Note that it is a constant refrain in the Golden Calf tradition that no one must ever see God (including Moses) or they would die. This theological doctrine has no part in the alternative tradition in chapter twenty four.
In the famous Calf tradition even Moses was not allowed to see God, for,
The alternative tradition forbids anyone from going up the mountain with Moses and then everyone went up the mountain with Moses. "...worship afar off. Moses alone shall come near to YAHWEH; but the others shall not come near, and the people shall not come up with him." "Then Moses and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel went up, and they saw the God of Israel; ... they saw God; they ate and drank."The conflict between this statement and the opening sentences of the story is obvious and indicates that the introduction was a later editorial interpolation. <endquote> Last edited on 02:09 am by sirlamre  Armed with the power of Thy name nothing can ever hurt me, and with Thy love in my heart all the world's afflictions can in no wise alarm me. |
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24HourNut Administrator  Body pillows rock!
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This is shocking. People created, edited, and/or manipulated archaic text to make it seem like was a consistent novel from God? Sirlamre has lost his mind ...
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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24HourNut wrote: This is shocking. People created, edited, and/or manipulated archaic text to make it seem like was a consistent novel from God? Sirlamre has lost his mind ... Some would say I never had one. However, in this case, I don't know that it's me that's lost my mind. People who take the Bible literally are the ones who've lost their minds. The Bible is true. Just not _literally_ true
Armed with the power of Thy name nothing can ever hurt me, and with Thy love in my heart all the world's afflictions can in no wise alarm me. |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member  Without Jesus we fall short...
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sirlamre wrote:
Then maybe the Baha'i faith needs to reference the Baha'i writings only and leave the bible alone? After all, if the Baha'i faith is credible and often belittles the bible... surely it doesn't need the bible so why use it or quote it to support your own religion? Last edited on 03:01 am by JustifiedByFaith Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: sirlamre wrote: Sorry -- I meant to include "the Bible DOES contradict itself here... if taken literally" Now maybe you'll be able (for once) to understand that I'm NOT beating on the Bible---- but on the INTERPRETATIONS that some Christians put on it. You usually miss that point entirely, and just gleefully assume that if I'm talking about some error in Christian THINKING, that somehow I'm maligning the Bible, as if YOU believe that every single Christian is some PERFECT representation of what Christ meant for us to be....
Armed with the power of Thy name nothing can ever hurt me, and with Thy love in my heart all the world's afflictions can in no wise alarm me. |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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sirlamre wrote: JustifiedByFaith wrote:In your sly methods you beat on Christianity and Christians. I don't care so much that you do because I am kind of hard on the Baha'i faith but you always act like your not meaning to do it.sirlamre wrote:  You clearly have an issue with Christians and display it in many of your threads and posts. Just admit it like I did.
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: In your sly methods you beat on Christianity and Christians. I don't care so much that you do because I am kind of hard on the Baha'i faith but you always act like your not meaning to do it. OK ---- Yes, I'm like Gandhi ---- I like (love) Christ... and aspire to be more like Him (ain't THAT a hopeless hope really-- who can ever attain) But --- like Gandhi, I find that most Christians do not BELIEVE what Christ said as He said (a lot, but not all) of what He said. And they CERTAINLY don't act like it. And to be fair, the same can be said of a lot of Baha'is, Muslims, Jews, and everyone else... But I find that Christians are the "most proud" of their "correctness" of belief and their "correct" interpretations of what their Book says. Most other religions' members are FAR more humble than that... Just rubs this ol' cats fur WAY backwards for Christians to have that "holier than thou" attitude... so yeah, I'l admit that--- Here's my OFFICIAL statement: 1. Christ was exactly who and what He said He was. Not necesarily what SOME Christians THINK He said He was.... but I believe He is what HE said He was.. 2. The Bible is clear spiritual and utterly accurate SPIRITUAL truth to that fact and others. It is NOT meant to be taken literally (in most cases), nor is it particularly historically accurate in many cases-- even though it's the only record enough times that we really don''t know. Men HAVE screwed around with the Bible, and God GOD GOD!!! has ALWAYS protected the spiritual truths in the Bible, and has not allowed translation errors, political agendas, egoistic thinking, etc - to get in the way of God's Bible from revealing its SPIRITUAL truths to the spiritually willing to set aside their pride and assumed knowledge. Last edited on 04:08 am by sirlamre Armed with the power of Thy name nothing can ever hurt me, and with Thy love in my heart all the world's afflictions can in no wise alarm me. |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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sirlamre wrote:
Ok. So you came clean. That's good. Thanks for laying it out on the line. I wonder what virtue would be found or integrity behind those who didn't stand rock solid for what they believed but were wishy washy and politically correct not speaking what they felt to be true in order to try not to cause waves? Did Jesus play the fense? Last edited on 04:11 am by JustifiedByFaith Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Aethelred Pioneer100© Member  Ye Olde Dead King
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2. The Bible is clear spiritual and utterly accurate SPIRITUAL truth to that fact and others . So far we agree. It is NOT meant to be taken literally (in most cases), Is this based on some authority other than your opinion? nor is it particularly historically accurate in many cases-- even though it's the only record enough times that we really don''t know. Can you give a few examples of historical errors in the Bible? Men HAVE screwed around with the Bible, and God GOD GOD!!! has ALWAYS protected the spiritual truths in the Bible, and has not allowed translation errors, political agendas, egoistic thinking, etc - to get in the way of God's Bible from revealing its SPIRITUAL truths to the spiritually willing to set aside their pride and assumed knowledge. Please explain what men have "screwed around" with the Bible. When did they do this and what was their agenda?
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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24HourNut wrote: This is shocking. People created, edited, and/or manipulated archaic text to make it seem like was a consistent novel from God? Sirlamre has lost his mind ... No, actually Frank... sirlamre hasn't lost his mind, he simply wanted to discredit the bible today but tomorrow will quote it for the furtherance of the Baha'i faith. It's confusing. 
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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cynicalninja Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member  Smiling Shinobi
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Sirlamre wasn't trying to discredit the bible JBF, he was questioning people who take it literally, like you.
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: 24HourNut wrote:This is shocking. People created, edited, and/or manipulated archaic text to make it seem like was a consistent novel from God? Sirlamre has lost his mind ... JBF, I think you keep confusing "discredit the Bible" with "not interpret it literally." I can see why you feel the way you do, and am not saying I think you are wrong, but I am not so sure sirlamre discredits the Bible if he is right about the literal interpretation of it. He just may be more accurate about it.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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24HourNut wrote: JustifiedByFaith wrote:24HourNut wrote:This is shocking. People created, edited, and/or manipulated archaic text to make it seem like was a consistent novel from God? Sirlamre has lost his mind ... I see your point, sirlamre is making a point here about literal vs symbolic interpretation... fair enough.
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: 24HourNut wrote:JustifiedByFaith wrote:24HourNut wrote:This is shocking. People created, edited, and/or manipulated archaic text to make it seem like was a consistent novel from God? Sirlamre has lost his mind ... Yes-- precisely.... The apparent "contradiction" that is the topic of this thread is really ONLY a contradiction if one interprets the Bible to be UTTERLY historically accurate (and that it should be interpreted as directly literally as possible) Certainly if one assumes PRECISE historical accuracy in the Bible, one gets into trouble with these verses. But if one assumes that the Bible is making a SPIRITUAL point here, it isn't relevant any longer whether it was precisely historically literally what happened or not... the spiritual truth is still there, unchanged; God has protected the spiritual truth--- any possible errors here are merely in historical details and are NOT relevant, if one is merely willing to look at the Bible in the SPIRITUAL context that is the true Reality of God.
Armed with the power of Thy name nothing can ever hurt me, and with Thy love in my heart all the world's afflictions can in no wise alarm me. |
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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Unless one wants to be ridiculously superstitious and pretend that exaggerations, myths, and embellishments don't get perpetuated, I can't see how a clear-thinking modern adult is supposed to believe every account in the Bible is literally true.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Religion & Philosophy > Moses, and Biblical incoherence about who went up the mountain... | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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