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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Religion & Philosophy > Increasing Anti-Christian Violence In India |
| Moderated by: 24HourNut | Page:   1 2 3   |
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24HourNut Administrator  Body pillows rock!
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: 24HourNut wrote:pmh1nic wrote:"A freedom-based one, embracing the universal principles of freedom which include deeming things as wrong when they cross the line over to infringing upon or harming others." The principles of freedom are univeral, like basic human rights, not the application or use of them.
 The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member  Without Jesus we fall short...
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24HourNut wrote: JustifiedByFaith wrote:24HourNut wrote:pmh1nic wrote:"A freedom-based one, embracing the universal principles of freedom which include deeming things as wrong when they cross the line over to infringing upon or harming others." Is this because people instinctively want to be free? Are these societal fixed principles or intentional design in mankind?
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: Is this because people instinctively want to be free? Are these societal fixed principles or intentional design in mankind? Isn't it inherent in our species, like many others, not to want to be chained into slavery ... or have other people's thoughts, feelings, and power unnecessarily dictate your life?
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: The principles of freedom are univeral, like basic human rights, not the application or use of them. I wanted to add that the direction I am really coming from is the universality of how applicable it is to all humans. In other words, those principles can apply to any human. The basic -principles of freedom and equality are universal in that, for example, regardless of where you live, they say you should not be beaten to death for the color of your skin, being a Christian, etc.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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pmh1nic Pioneer100© Member 
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24hn "The principles of freedom are univeral, like basic human rights, not the application or use of them." Try telling that to those that lived in Stalin's Russia or Hilter's Germany or Pol Pot's Cambodia, or Kim's North Korea, etc., etc., etc. The principles of freedom are NOT universal.
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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pmh1nic wrote: 24hn The universal principles of freedom and equality were not applied there, then. But the principles, like certain other ideas, are universal in that they can be applied to every human. No less universal than specific religious teachings, that's for sure.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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pmh1nic Pioneer100© Member
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"The universal principles of freedom and equality were not applied there, then." If there are times and places where they are not applied then they are NOT universal. "But the principles, like certain other ideas, are universal in that they can be applied to every human." Says who? You? Your claim that they are universal does NOTHING for those that suffered and died under the regimes mentioned in my earlier post. "No less universal than specific religious teachings, that's for sure." So now it seems you are saying that those "universal principles of freedom" are not universal.
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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pmh1nic wrote: "The universal principles of freedom and equality were not applied there, then." You are misunderstanding. I am saying that the principles of freedom and equality are universally applicable and usable, if that society or institution chooses to embrace them. Those principles are not just for White males in Australia or short people in Argentina. They can apply to all. Just like the principle of "be respectful" is universal, regardless of how it is not applied.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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pmh1nic Pioneer100© Member
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"I am saying that the principles of freedom and equality are universally applicable and usable, if that society or institution chooses to embrace them." Wrong. They are NOT universal. Everyone does not agree that they are universal. They are not applied universally. You may feel strongly that they should apply to everyone but YOUR opinion doesn't make them universal principles. If you study the history of mankind these principles have rarely been applied to all people. So where did you come up with the idea that they are universal?
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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pmh1nic wrote: "I am saying that the principles of freedom and equality are universally applicable and usable, if that society or institution chooses to embrace them." Because they can be applied to all people, theoretically, if that society or institution wishes, like I said. Those principles existed before civil rights or the Founding of America, because they are generally universal human rights type ideals that can generally be universally applied should the opportunity be present or created. They are certainly more inherently universal than "here, this book with rules is true." People identify, inherently, with certain universal principles. Even primates know it is bad to cross certain lines, like stealing ... taking food from the hands and mouth of another one eating it. That is a universal animal principle that even applies to humans. Some principles are so universal they travel across species! People not agreeing that a concept or principle is universal doesn't make it not universal. We can see how universal it is by how it can be applied to different people all over the world should they choose to. Drinking water is a universally healthy thing for animals and humans, and the fact that some people or animals drink Gatorade or have a medical condition that disallows that, doesn't change the generally universal nature of certain things.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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pmh1nic Pioneer100© Member
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24hn Your definition of "universal" is very weak..."can be", institution "wishes", "generally" universal. Give me a break. They are either universal or they are not. If they are believed and implimented at the whim of men they are NOT universal.
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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pmh1nic wrote: 24hn It must suck being so black & white, unable to deal with things like generalizations. Universal can be very general. In fact, some definitions of it indicate that clearly. Leonardo da Vinci was a universal genius is an example, from the dictionary, of how one is universal in something because of wide ranges and general application. Freedom is understood by all. Even animals like to be free. "Understood by all" is one of the listed definitions of universal. Pertaining to all is another definition. Freedom pertains to all human beings, whether free or not. Freedom and equality are objective and universal principles for people. The slaves and oppression you mentioned are a lack of freedom. The principle is there, but being abused, disrespected, or ignored. "Something that may be applied throughout" is another definition of universal. Freedom may be applied everywhere, in theory and if enough people want it. "An entity that remains unchanged in character" is another aspect of universal. The basic principles of freedom and equality say the same things, regardless of time or place. Because they are universal and apply to people and even animals. Some morals are universal too. Like I said, even monkeys know not to steal. You would have to be dumber than a monkey to make a Bible for issuing behavior guidelines and not include something like "do not steal." Not impressed with a book that weaves universal morals that existed before it with unnecessary superstitious dogma and baloney. The universal principles of freedom and equality is the answer to your question about "If not a Christian nation then what?" The Founders gave the same answer, too.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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The main problem with the world in most places is that they do not embrace the universal and objective principles of freedom and equality. If the Middle East did, it would be a far safer and saner world. Same goes for India as per the story in this topic.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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pmh1nic Pioneer100© Member
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"It must suck being so black & white, unable to deal with things like generalizations." If it's a "generalization" then it is NOT universal. They don't become "universal" because you say its so. These "universal" principles CANNOT be applied to all people because all people don't believe in them.
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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Those principles CAN be applied - if people do not embrace them, that does not render them something other than objective or universal. I showed you the ways they are universal. I showed you how a principle can just be applicable or understood for it to be universal. Freedom is a universal concept that applies even across species and that people have been fighting for throughout history. It was around well before Christianity came along. You might want to call Webster.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Religion & Philosophy > Increasing Anti-Christian Violence In India | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
) has been what's driving the freedom movements into normally restrictive Islamic nations.
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