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| Moderated by: 24HourNut | Page: 1 2 3   |
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cynicalninja Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member  Smiling Shinobi
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During the Last Supper before Jesus' execution, the author(s) of the Gospel of John describes how the "beloved" disciple laid himself on Jesus' inner tunic -- his undergarment. See John 13:25 and 21:20. During the crucifixion, in John 19:26-28, Jesus is described as seeing his mother and an unidentified man: "the disciple standing by, whom he loved intimately." Again, Jesus probably loved all of his 12 or 70 disciples, but this particular disciple is identified as "the" disciple who Jesus loved. Indicating a intimate relationship with a sexually attractive disciple. Suddenly many aspects of the New Testament made sense. Jesus never married. He preached love, tolerance, and forgiveness of sins. He did not condemn and vilify as his so-called followers do today. He surrounded himself with men whom he loved. He enjoyed picking tunics out for his disciples. Why did he never marry? Why is the New Testament silent about his sexuality? Rev Al Tomkinson said "Its clear Jesus was probably gay and that he understood hatred and bigotry first-hand. Like a mordern day San Franciscan" Mark 14:51-52 describes the incident when Jesus was arrested by the religious police. It describes how one of Jesus' followers was scantily dressed. He had a linen cloth cast on his naked body; the size and location of the cloth is not defined. He was "wearing nothing but a linen garment." When the police tried to seize him, they were able to grab only his cloth; the man ran away naked. Everyone looked away from the naked man apart from Jesus. Suddenly Jesus walks off alone to "relief himself from the sins" Reverend Peter Murphy wrote: "We don't know from the sources what really was going on, but we do know that something was very peculiar between Jesus and that naked young man." Michael Kelly wrote of Jesus' attitude towards a same-sex couple as described in Matthew 8:5-13: and Luke 7:2: "One day a Roman Centurion asked him to heal him. Scholars of both Scripture and Ancient History tell us that Roman Centurions, who were not permitted to marry while in service, regularly chose a favorite male slave to be their personal assistant and sexual servant. Jesus offered to be a servant, but the centurion asked him simply to speak a word of healing. Paul's opinions and those of many other authors in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) are clearly stated. They conclude that Jesus might have been gay. Odler Jeanlouie: "Is it meaningful that, in the Sermon on the Mount, central to his teaching, he offered a one-way trip to the Kingdom of God, to any man who sinned."
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berinwitness Original500© Member
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cynicalninja wrote: this particular disciple is identified as "the" disciple who Jesus loved. Indicating a intimate relationship with a sexually attractive disciple. How do you know that this situation is ONLY about physical / sexual intimacy? Why did he never marry? Perhaps because He was too busy preaching. He knew His time was limited and there was a lot to say. Why is the New Testament silent about his sexuality? Perhaps because He never had sex, never said anything about wanting sex with anyone. Perhaps His disciples thought it was a non-isuue, not worth writing about later. Rev Al Tomkinson said "Its clear Jesus was probably gay It's most certainly not clear to ME. Reverend Peter Murphy wrote: "We don't know from the sources what really was going on, but we do know that something was very peculiar between Jesus and that naked young man." Yeah, right. What we do know is that Reverend Murphy has gay sex on the brain, not that Jesus and the man who was fully clothed when he first arrived on the scene were having gay sex at any time in their lives. Scholars of both Scripture and Ancient History tell us that Roman Centurions, who were not permitted to marry while in service, regularly chose a favorite male slave to be their personal assistant and sexual servant. Jesus offered to be a servant How does this indicate Jesus wanted to be a gay sex slave, to the exclusion of any other definition of servitude? In the Baha'i Faith it is taught that the highest spiritual station to which we can aspire is servitude, and it is also taught that sex is only allowable between a man and a woman who are married to each other. So I don't see any validity in your argument. Paul's opinions and those of many other authors in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) are clearly stated. They conclude that Jesus might have been gay. This is misleading. Who makes that conclusion, modern-day Bible scholars or Paul and Old Testament authors? Odler Jeanlouie: "Is it meaningful that, in the Sermon on the Mount, central to his teaching, he offered a one-way trip to the Kingdom of God, to any man who sinned." What evidence is presented that the trip to the Kingdom of God was not offered to women?
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation 
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Well, the evidence sounds flimsy to me, at best. 1) The disciple "whom he loved intimately" is taken by most scholars to be Mary Magdalene, and that intimacy does not necessarily entail sexual intimacy. 2) It wasn't necessarily unusual for a 1st century Jew not to marry. 3) My reading of the centurion incident is that Jesus simply offered to perform healing, as he did for many people. Combine that with the fact that homosexuality does seem to be condemned in Corinthians. It's unlikely, in my view, that such a condemnation would take place, if the head honcho himself was gay.
 "It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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librtyhead Original500© Member 
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Would it really matter if he was?
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation
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librtyhead wrote: Would it really matter if he was? I certainly think it would. It would be hard to justify the anti-homosexual strain that runs through much modern Christian teaching if Jesus himself was gay, wouldn't it? It might not matter to everyone, but it would necessitate a major shift for some people's theology.
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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construct Pioneer100© Member  The Boy Next Door
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Sorry, ninja, but I don't think the gospels give any clear and convincing indication about Jesus' sexual orientation or behavior. Although it is very clear that Jesus had a special closeness to one deciple, namely John (sorry, Brian), and that he healed the Centurion's lover without condemnation, and that it was highly unusual for Jewish men to remain single into their thirties, I don't believe the evidence is conclusive that Jesus was gay. I am also not convinced that Jesus wasn't attracted to other men sexually. We just don't have enough relevant information to know about his sexuality. Also, Brian, there are translation problems with those two words in I Cor. 6. The fact is that we don't know exactly what they mean. And there is good evidence from second century usage that they don't condemn all sexual behavior between men. Last edited on 05:58 pm by construct |
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation
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construct wrote: Although it is very clear that Jesus had a special closeness to one deciple, namely John (sorry, Brian), and that he healed the Centurion's lover without condemnation, and that it was highly unusual for Jewish men to remain single into their thirties, I don't believe the evidence is conclusive that Jesus was gay. Sorry, Construct. I must've been confusing legitimate scholarship with one of those "Da Vinci Code" type documentaries shown on TV once in a while.  construct wrote: Also, Brian, there are translation problems with those two words in I Cor. 6. The fact is that we don't know exactly what they mean. And there is good evidence from second century usage that they don't condemn all sexual behavior between men. How about Romans 1:26-27? I don't necessarily think any of these passages reflect how Jesus necessarily felt about homosexuality, since they were obviously not written by Jesus (and arguably, weren't even written by the disciples whose names they bear), but I believe these are the passages most frequently used to justify the anti-homosexual bias in modern Christianity.
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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24HourNut Administrator  Body pillows rock!
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Is there reason to believe a lot of material was nixed or left out of the Bible, and could that explain the silence on big parts of Jesus' life? One would expect more details on his past if he was so famous.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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librtyhead Original500© Member
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When you go to heaven is sex allowed or even needed?
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construct Pioneer100© Member The Boy Next Door
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24HourNut wrote:Is there reason to believe a lot of material was nixed or left out of the Bible, and could that explain the silence on big parts of Jesus' life? One would expect more details on his past if he was so famous. You're right in saying that the selection of stories in the gospels was based on the reason they were written. It's not that the story was particularly sanitized. Instead it is that stories were included to support the purpose of the writers. Since they were essentially writing to convince others of Jesus' message and mission and to lead the readers to devotion to him, their stories are almost entirely about events in his ministry. Last edited on 06:47 pm by construct |
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construct Pioneer100© Member The Boy Next Door
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Brian wrote:How about Romans 1:26-27? I think it is wrong to read verses 26 and 27 apart from their context in Paul's argument about the ineffectiveness of natural "revelation" in Rom. 1:18-32. The first part of the argument is that people consistantly reject the true god for idolotrous worship including sexual religious rituals. The second part catalogues the social disruptions that result from said rejection (which includes no mention of sexual sins).
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Saint Forum-Blogger© Pioneer100© Member  Polymath
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You're gonna burn in Hell for this thread, Ninja.
A^2 + B^2 = C^2 |
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pmh1nic Pioneer100© Member 
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When Jesus was brought to trial it is recorded that no accusations against Him could stick. If some accusation of immorality (heterosexual or homosexual) could have been brought against Him by the strict religionist of His day it would have been. Homosexuality among the Jews of Jesus day was seen as a gross violation of the law of God. The Apostle Paul refers to it as a "vile affection". The parsing of the word love ("disciple whom Jesus loved") is meant to muddy the waters. The word used in these and the other references is the word "agape" (divine, unconditional, self-sacrifical), not "eros" (connotating sexual love or desire) or even "phila" (brotherly love). It's the word Jesus used when he asked Peter "do you love me more then these", speaking of the other disciples.
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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The problem is that we can't trust that big things weren't edited out, changed, or whole sections omitted or added way after the fact. Ya just can't trust it. The most famous dude in all those stories, and no info on most of his life?
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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librtyhead Original500© Member
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You're gonna burn in Hell for this thread, Ninja.
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