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| Moderated by: 24HourNut | Page:   1 2 3   |
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24HourNut Administrator  Body pillows rock!
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LOL at both of you!
 The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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Aethelred Pioneer100© Member  Ye Olde Dead King
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Frank, As I see it, there are enough scientific, rational reasons to believe in a First Cause to not need solace in the face of loss as an excuse to believe. The more science explores the universe and the cell, the more points of proof we end up with to support a theistic First Cause. I believe this not because it makes me feel good or because the culture in which I was born conditioned me to believe it. As I have explained before, I went through a decade long agnostic period. I was quite happy and quite content during that time. However, it was because of science that I came to believe in God, not in spite of science. The idea that the universe, which began to exist about 13.5 billion years ago, had a cause was something that logic demanded. The more I looked into it, thought about it, observed it et cetera, the more logical weight a First Cause had. 1. All things which begin to exist have a cause. 2. The universe began to exist. 3. Because the universe began to exist, it had a cause.
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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I don't believe human logic applies to the core concept. I believe we are emotional beings and death is issue numero uno - from survival of the species type death to your daughter or son. Also, I am not really saying that is where God came from or that belief in God is not valid - I am saying that religions could easily have been born out of this fear, wonder, and our nature, and overpowering emotional needs, to get answers and find solution. That is why you searched. Regardless of what you found, or what I find, I am speaking to primitive history and what fueled the creation of these religious systems. I don't think God requires organized worship, and I don't think God penalizes for being born into a Jewish family. I think ALL of the details are man-man and in fact, are unknown. Just like any First Cause conclusions you may have.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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Aethelred Pioneer100© Member Ye Olde Dead King
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24HourNut wrote: I think ALL of the details are man-man and in fact, are unknown. In that case you are basing what you chose to believe on blind faith alone.
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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Aethelred wrote: 24HourNut wrote:I think ALL of the details are man-man and in fact, are unknown. I feel that my case is based upon not knowing. I don't see how anyone can know more than me, or me more than them. It is my opinion, my guess, that odds are these religions are all man-made and the details of God are unknown.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member  Without Jesus we fall short...
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24HourNut wrote: ...I think the need to help out with the literally unbelievable sadness and pain of death found a solution in religion. Yet such a thing wasn't created for our ease of sadness but to understand the nature of death. Death is a process not a end all. Death of this body is life in the next. God does not send people to hell they go by choice. The location of "Hell" was not designed for humans. It was prepared for angelic beings who rejected the All Mighty God. We go to hell because a Holy God can not dwell with sinful man. One MUST be "born again" of the spirit of God in order to be in His presence upon death. Otherwise, sin must be judged and eternal separation from God is the only option when one rejects the Son of God who bore our sin and made us right before God the Father. Yes, hell is a choice.
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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JBF, that death thing is a pretty cruel process. The whole sin thing was God's invention, so making us pay for sin with such a nasty punishment, forever (eternity) seems like something a hateful maniac would do. This eternally burning in Hell thing, in my view, TOTALLY radiates archaic-brand superstition, myth, fantasy, and fear. More importantly, punishing people for being born into a Jewish culture or family with something as horrible as eternity in Hell seems crazy and you know it! Every clear-thinking modern adult knows it!
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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24HourNut wrote: JBF, that death thing is a pretty cruel process. The whole sin thing was God's invention, so making us pay for sin with such a nasty punishment, forever (eternity) seems like something a hateful maniac would do. #1. How was sin God's invention? #2. Your answer will either negate the statement you made of "paying for sin" or it will create another question for you. 
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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#1. How was sin God's invention? God created everything. He even knows the future. Like, how billions were going to believe in the "wrong religion" and sweet old ladies who were good people shall burn in Hell for all eternity for "sinning." Stuff like that.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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24HourNut wrote: #1. How was sin God's invention? Sin wasn't "created" Frank... Sin is the result of "rejection and disobediance". God loves the world and gave the world His only Son who has been made the only sacrifice for you and for sin. Do you reject the free gift from God for you? Have you accepted His love for you or rejected His love for you? A loving God also keeps His word and sin will be judged.
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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librtyhead Original500© Member 
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I like to think that "death" is actually the beginning and that life is our souls in infancy, just as some people are born to be evil some are born to be good. Maybe like a lottery for God. A cruel yet justifiable necessity.
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Amy Original500© Member  ...going with the flow...
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librtyhead wrote: I like to think that "death" is actually the beginning and that life is our souls in infancy, I agree with that assessment 100%  as for the rest of your post....not so much...  
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BruceDLimber Original500© Member  (a Baha'i who loves to sing!)
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Greetings! 24HourNut wrote: Hurry up, I could die any minute, being sent straight to Hell for my loving, eternal torture. 24HourNut wrote: Hurry up, I could die any minute, being sent straight to Hell for my loving, eternal torture. I don't know how much comfort this is or isn't, but IOV God doesn't send people to hell (which we define as spiritual remoteness from Him): they place themselves there through their own misdeeds and failure to grow spiritually! So to the extent that you're endeavoring to learn and grow, you should have nothing to worry about! Please remember that not all religions have such a negative view of existence (or of God). Best, :-) Bruce
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Saint Forum-Blogger© Pioneer100© Member  Polymath
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1. Dear FGP, Don't worry...I happen to know for sure that Mark still exists. I have died before and been out of my body. You do not cease to exist just because you body dies. 2. The reason for Hell is obvious. There once was a catatonic. In order to get him to speak, scientists placed him in a room and began to turn up the heat. When the temperature reached 130 degrees, he yelled, "Get me out of here!" Hell is God's way of getting the soul's attention. If nothing could make you come to God in life, then maybe Hell will still get your attention. In Dante's vision, the Angel Virgil showed him that there was a way out of Hell. But to get there you had to descend to the very lowest bolgia, meet Satan, (A rather tragic figure with three heads who chews on the three great traitors to mankind with each of his three mouths) answer his questions and climb down his legs to a cave the has a small chinmey up to Heaven. Knowing evil in all it's forms is one way to understand God's love and get to Heaven.
A^2 + B^2 = C^2 |
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Saint Forum-Blogger© Pioneer100© Member Polymath
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Here is the story of my out-of-body experience. For a year, I was getting sicker. The doctors couldn't figure it out. I felt like I was filed with wet cement, I was getting stiffer and stiffer, and the pain was incredible. (They tell me now that it compares to childbirth) By the time the year was up, I literally couldn't walk. I had to use a cane and I could barely shuffle, and if I sat down, I couldn't get up. I was even beginning to have trouble focusing my eyes. Since I couldn't eat due to the pain, I had lost over 70 lbs. and looked like a Holocaust survivor. My friends told me I looked like a living skeleton. One night, about midnight, I woke with a terrible feeling. I was sick! Something was desperately wrong with me! Not just the pain I had been feeling, but something much, much worse! I tried to call out to my wife, but my voice wouldn't work. I fell out of the bed and managed to crawly upwards to a standing position using the dresser handles. As I stood there holding on to the dresser, suddenly...I was outside my body! I was standing behind myself. I could see the back of my own head. And that's weird, because usually you don't get to see that angle. I was looking at the curls that I have back there and my first thought was, "Geez, I need a haircut." Then, my body lost its hold on the dresser, fingernails scratching the top as the body collapsed heavily to the floor in a heap. It didn't even try to catch itself. I stood there shocked thinking, "Wow, that looked like it hurt!" Then I realized it...I was outside my body. The recognition was instant and hit me like a wave. Suddenly, I was afraid to move. I felt like I might pop myself like a soap bubble. I turned my "head" slowly to the left...the room was quiet. My wife was still in the bed, sleeping softly. A feeling washed over me. It was a feeling of calm and peace. I was so relieved, the pain of my body was completely gone, I thought, "Oh, that feels so much better!" (I hadn't truly realized just how much pain I had been in until it was lifted.) Then I saw them.... They looked a lot like candle flames, larger at the bottom and tapering to a smaller and rounded top, but not flickering at all, just softly glowing a warm, white light. They were a little bigger than a football and were hovering all around the room at various heights. I kept scanning and noticed that they were also out on the lawn, and in the street. Through the trees, I could see that they were even on the next block. There were thousands of them! That's when I suddenly realized I was looking right through the wall! Now, you have to understand, this was not some hazy, out of focus vision. Everything was crystal clear. The details of the room were crisp, even more than normal; my sight seemed to have improved. I realized that these were people, and that they were my people. I wonder, "Why do I have so many people?" The answer came to me as a thought, "down the generations” I got it right away, a family goes back in time thousands of years, these were all my people from all time. For what seemed like an eternity, I stood there, feeling the cool night air and drinking in the sensation of being free of the pain. I don't remember breathing, though. I wasn't hungry, thirsty, or anything else in fact. Funny thing that. The little candles flames did nothing however. They seemed to be waiting for something. But I still felt the love coming from them. I looked to my left slowly, to see my body huddled on the floor motionless. The next second there was a flash of light and BAM! I was back in my body. I was a little disoriented and it took a second for me to realized where I was, the angle was strange as I could see under the bed and the room was very dark again. I realized I was back in my body. My first thought was, "Damn! That DID hurt!" My body was aching in a hundred places from the fall and the pain had returned. My wife heard my moans and woke up. I told her to take me to the hospital and with great effort we managed to drag my body to the car and drive to the hospital. The doctors told me that I had had a "coronary incident" and that my heart had stopped beating for as much as two minutes. (I didn't suffer any brain damage, thought, since I'm an avid swimmer, and can hold my breath easily for that amount of time.) Since I had technically "died", they decided there might actually be something wrong with me. They ran 300 blood tests, every one in the book. When they came back the answer was as clear as a bell...RA. Rheumatoid Arthritis, the worst kind. It's not just an inflammation of the joints; it's the exact opposite of AIDS and in the old days, every bit as lethal. My own white blood cells could no longer tell the difference between bad bacteria and my own tissues. They were literally eating me alive. Once they got to the internal organs, I suffered the heart attack. It was no problem after that, a dose of steroids, an autoimmune suppressor and I was literally dancing a jig (on atrophied muscles) by the end of the day. I'm back to normal now, a strapping, barrel-chested 240 lbs. I can swim, run a short distance, and I'm even hoping to ski again next year. But I'm changed in a big way. I really never took life for granted, I always knew that every day was precious, but now it's not an abstract concept to me. I smell the flowers. I ride my bike, I make sure to kiss my girl and tell her I love her every day. I made a tire swing for my grandchildren and I swing in it myself every chance I get. I was certainly never afraid of death, but it's different now. I find it of infinite comfort to know that you don't cease to exist when your body dies. I had faith before, but it's infinitely stronger now. God was very kind to me for some reason. I guess I still have something to do here! :o Last edited on 08:25 pm by Saint A^2 + B^2 = C^2 |
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