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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Religion & Philosophy > Does God know when and how you will die? |
| Moderated by: 24HourNut | Page:   1 2 3 |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member  Without Jesus we fall short...
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Free.man wrote: JustifiedByFaith wrote:It seems that way Brian. Although, the Old Testament prophets point Israel and the pre-Christian world to the coming Messiah. Abraham did not see the Christ but as we read in the scriptures he was saved by this hope, trust and faith in what God said in His Son to come. Faith is what saves. I agree it does appear that prior to the Old Testament... mankind was without hope. This possibility still doesn't change the choice we have to make today does it?Dear friend; This is a form of Universalism as preached by many false doctrines. God did not point humanity to many Saviors or many WAYS but to ONE Savior and ONE WAY.
 Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Free.man Original500© Member
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Brian wrote: JustifiedByFaith wrote:Dear friend,God knew all of it. He also gave mankind the only solution to spiritual death and separation from Him. Yet, mankind chooses to reject Jesus and insert his own ways, his own systems, and make his own attempts at self righteousness. Before one can desire to be saved one must understand he is lost and see the love of God for Him and the sacrifice God has made for Him. It is very clear to me as a Baha'i that God always provides for His creation. This process has clearly been ongoing for billions of years(or longer) and continue to go on. God's Messengers come and go throughout history. These realities become stories; the stories become legends; the legends become myths. New realities come to the fore and the process continues. The Adam and Eve event of old will because of this process never become more then a potential lesson to glean some knowledge from. Likewise, the 2000 year old Jesus story, the 1500 year old Muhammad story and many like them are taking their place in history as important lessons from, if one is willing to study them. I have no doubt that these stories will continue to take a back seat to current realities that become stories, legends and then myths. It is even more clear to me, that today's everyday person has grown through this God-given process and this makes the previous answers from those who hold on to old answers previously provided obsolete. Wether we like it or not, the Jesus story, Muhammad story and others are sliding more and more into myth. The day by day slide into myth makes the bearers of these stories so anxious because of the fear of being marginalized that they in cist their right to condemn others for not following the previous but insufficient answers to current realities. I have no doubt that God has always provided for His creation and God will always provide for His creation. Free.man
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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Free.man wrote: JustifiedByFaith wrote:It seems that way Brian. Although, the Old Testament prophets point Israel and the pre-Christian world to the coming Messiah. Abraham did not see the Christ but as we read in the scriptures he was saved by this hope, trust and faith in what God said in His Son to come. Faith is what saves. I agree it does appear that prior to the Old Testament... mankind was without hope. This possibility still doesn't change the choice we have to make today does it?The Christianity that you espouse here is no doubt waning because you specifically and Christianity in general simply do not provide adequate answers for current questions sincerely asked. This statement also lacks foundation. Because someone gives answers to appease the flesh has no bearing on the essential truth of the matter. Satan gave adequate answers to Eve... but were the answers true Free.man?  Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’” Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. Genesis 3:1-6
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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24HourNut Administrator  Body pillows rock!
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God knew all of it. Well if you know all if it, if you created all of it, and you know all the possilble futures from changing, setting up, and intervening differently, you made the "movie" in an instant and you chose how things were going to go down with all people. You KNOW the events that are all going to come, including decisions by people, sexual orientation, mutations, defects, suffering, conflict with other religions and that you will be producing a Raphie that punches people in the nose and how Ralphie dies because you make the story when you can see the futures based upon how you create it. God set Eve up WAY ahead of time and KNEW she was going to do what she did and KNEW he was creating creatures that will walk around talking about Jesus much later on. He KNEW he was going to Flood little kids in a flood when he made Eve, correct? If the answer is YES, which you sort of admitted by saying "God knew it all" then you are also saying he created and selected the story.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation 
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: It seems that way Brian. Although, the Old Testament prophets point Israel and the pre-Christian world to the coming Messiah. Abraham did not see the Christ but as we read in the scriptures he was saved by this hope, trust and faith in what God said in His Son to come. Faith is what saves. I agree it does appear that prior to the Old Testament... mankind was without hope. This possibility still doesn't change the choice we have to make today does it? I don't think it changes the choice you have to make, but I think it does have some bearing on what I'd choose. To believe that God sentenced millions to death -- without any hope of salvation -- I'd have to consider God to be a malevolent monster. To worship such a God would, to me, be the equivalent of making a deal with the devil: "It's fine by me that you condemned all those people, as long as you save my sorry ass!" It's hard for me to see that as a good deal. In practical terms, it might get the job done, but what kind of God would I be worshiping then?
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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Free.man Original500© Member
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: Free.man wrote:Dear friend,JustifiedByFaith wrote:It seems that way Brian. Although, the Old Testament prophets point Israel and the pre-Christian world to the coming Messiah. Abraham did not see the Christ but as we read in the scriptures he was saved by this hope, trust and faith in what God said in His Son to come. Faith is what saves. I agree it does appear that prior to the Old Testament... mankind was without hope. This possibility still doesn't change the choice we have to make today does it?Dear friend; OH! The same ol' Vade-retro? I must say, with all due respect, JBF, that these same ol' emoticons just don't negate the reality that the lack of clear and cogent answers from you does demononstrate that Christians and Christianity no long have any of the answers to such important questions. Most people do not reject your answers because you are Christian. They reject your answers because they do not make any sense. Christanity is falling apart because of your inability and unwillingness to provide reasoned answers to such questions as is posed in this thread. Getting one's jollies from condemation of others is not an answer. It just seems more like a 5th grade emoticon for an otherwise graduated concern. Scapegoating other beliefs only shows others to not get their hopes up about getting any real answers from Christianity any time soon. I'd say: Knock knock yourself out. Free.man
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Free.man Original500© Member
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: Free.man wrote:Dear friend,JustifiedByFaith wrote:It seems that way Brian. Although, the Old Testament prophets point Israel and the pre-Christian world to the coming Messiah. Abraham did not see the Christ but as we read in the scriptures he was saved by this hope, trust and faith in what God said in His Son to come. Faith is what saves. I agree it does appear that prior to the Old Testament... mankind was without hope. This possibility still doesn't change the choice we have to make today does it?The Christianity that you espouse here is no doubt waning because you specifically and Christianity in general simply do not provide adequate answers for current questions sincerely asked. As the story states the snake did give an "adequate" answer. However, JBF, This does not imply that all "adequate" answers are from a snake. Some adequate answers are true and some are not. Adam and Eve is a story. There is no way to prove or disprove the story was about a real event. The story itself is not the event. The story was possibly thousands of years old when it was first included in the Bible. The only value of the story, now, is what we can learn from studying it. If one believes the story as literal then there are many problems adequately answering the questions about it posed in this thread. If one believes the story as allegorical then there are many adequate answers to be gleaned from studying it. Neither the story itself nor what one believes about the story is going to answer adequately some of the questions asked here. The story does not hold the information that is needed to answer such questions. Some people will blame everything on Satan. Others will ask Why God created Satan knowing Satan would rebel, take the form of a snake and give Eve an adequate answer that God knew Eve would accept. Clearly, the literal interpretation of such a story can not and will not prevail against such questions even if God knew the question itself was going to be asked. Does this mene God intended that the literal interpretation of this story was going to be inadequate? Free.man
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Saint Forum-Blogger© Pioneer100© Member  Polymath
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Is that you Satan? Oh...Frank. Sorry. I thought you were someone else.
A^2 + B^2 = C^2 |
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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Saint wrote: Is that you Satan? Oh...Frank. Sorry. I thought you were someone else. Heh. Hey. I'm not demonic for saying if you create everything and at the same time know the future endings to everything then you made it all including the future events and endings. Was God truly disappointed in how people turned out, so drowned them in a Flood? How can you be disappointed in people you knew were going to wind up there since you knew the Flood was coming before you even made Eve? What's with this fake suprise and solution thing? That Flood event was going to happen the moment God made Eve because he knew that future already.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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Free.man Original500© Member
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24HourNut wrote: Dear friend,God knew all of it. I'd say: The answer is yes. I would also posit that God also knew that everything(except God) has it it's limitations. God knew that the Jesus story would have a beginning and an ending. All Baha'is I know of know the Baha'i Faith had a beginning and will have an ending. The fact that this process take a very long time makes it hard for most individuals to take the process seriously. When such a process takes thousands, millions or billions of years to cycle through then our short recorded history hardly even leaves a tell. After a tree yields it's fruit it starts to shut down for the season. The Adam and Eve story and the Bible is likewise sutting itself down. God knew that the value of the Adam and Eve story would, in time, not be able to maintain itself. I believe God(only God) does know it all. There are several reports in the New Testament where Jesus specifically says He did not know it all. Baha'u'llah clearly says He does not know it all. However, If we continue to just give credence only to old stories from the Bible then moving forward will just be made more difficult, IMO. God knows this too. Thats why God provides more stories for more growth even when God knows how we will respond to such stories. Free.man
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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Free.man, then what is the point of God knows the story already? If he knows the future of everything and everyone including their decisions, what is the point? Something is not making sense. You can't jive knowing everything including the future, with "disappointed in how people turned out" to drown them in a Flood. He knew he would be drowning kids when he made Eve if he knew the future. God knew this text-based blind faith organized religion thing would have serious problems and conflict. Anyone who knows human beings can understand why. So why the games? Why the tests that God already knows your answers to since he knows the future? Why this confusing mess that experts can't even agree on in regard to which religion is a valid one, the right one, the one God currently endorses? None of this makes sense and I feel fine saying that since I am using the same logic and reasoning organized religion asks me to use to conclude their religion is valid and good.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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Saint Forum-Blogger© Pioneer100© Member Polymath
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24HourNut wrote: I am using...logic. Yes, that's probably the problem right there. How can we, from our infinitely small and isolated viewpoint, truly understand the logic, or even the rules on which the Creator set up the Universe? It's like a retarded four-year-old trying to deduce the laws of quantum physics. He obviously does not have enough experience, information, or cognitive ability. We simply are not far enough along to put all the pieces of the puzzle together, especially considering we don't even have all the pieces of the puzzle. (Gravity? What's that?) I think your main problem, Frank, is that you try take the Bible as literal scientific fact and make that fit your scientific knowledge base. The Bible wasn't even written down for over 200 years. Ever play the "telephone game?" I see the Old Testament as a very good book on how to live your life, and the New Testament as an eyewitness account of a man who was the Son of God and proved it by rising from the dead and walking on water. (Not necessarily on that order.) He too had lessons to live by, directly from the Creator. Frank: Do you agree that the Universe is so massive, complex, intricate, and beautiful that it must have been created on purpose? Or do you believe all Creation is random and therefore all life is meaningless? Here's what I believe: It has been mathematically shown that where conditions are favorable, life will begin, just as it did here. If life begins, it will eventually reach intelligence, since that is the greatest single survival trait in natural selection. Therefore, the Universe was created to develop intelligent life. To me, that implies a Creator. So the question is, "Why does God want us to be intelligent?" Last edited on 09:50 pm by Saint A^2 + B^2 = C^2 |
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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Saint, I hear what you said but it is a "logic" that Christianity is asserting. They are asserting that their "logic" is believable and correct. Christianity asserts that God knows the future of everything AND created everything YET God is not responsible for what he KNEW was going to produce, including needing to Flood children and have billions not "saved" because they were born into another religion. That is what THEY are saying. Isn't it possible their story is wrong, Saint? It sure seems so to me and just because they believe their story doesn't make it the truth. I don't start off thinking they or anyone has more details about God than you or I do.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Religion & Philosophy > Does God know when and how you will die? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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