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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Religion & Philosophy > The BIG problem with modern religions: |
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24HourNut Administrator  aka Frank
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: So back to the beginning premise: Fortunately, they will all burn in Hell for a torturous eternity, regardless of how good they are, as they should, and as any Loving God would decide to do.
 The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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Free.man Original500© Member
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: The bottom line is this: Dear friend, We all know this is a bottom line for you, however, you do bring up something that seems important enough to look at more thoroughly, IMO. If I'm not mistaken, from your read of the Bible you believe Jesus was wholly God and therefore the only final way to God; from my read of the Bible I believe Jesus was not wholly God but was everything the world was capable of understanding about God at that time and was the only way to God for that period of time. It is a case of that pesky iota; homoiousios((similar substance) by God) vs homoousios((same substance) God). You have quoted the Bible to support your position and I have quoted the Bible as to my position which basically keeps the heteroousios going and so on. So, for the sake of argument, if your position is correct and Jesus is the only way then: 1) why was there thousands of years of world growth and development before Jesus made His appearance with little or no clear and/ specific mention of Jesus or the Christ. The Christian's alleged references to Jesus was cooptated from a previously established religion of which the practitianers thereof even unto today disagree with. Both you and I agree that at least some of those references were about Jesus. We disagree that all the references were about Jesus. The practitioners of that well established religion disagree with both of us. They argue that their religion does not belong to you no to me. It is problematic because you can not clearly demonstrate your position and so rely exclusively on literal interpretation and justification by faith alone or belief. My position is if anything is to be understood about those references a broader acceptance of a metaphoric application applies because at least some understanding can come out of that approach. 2) Jesus did not write down anything about His position; neither did most of His followers, nor did Jesus' opponents nor did other observers around Jesus. The Book was compliled years later and morphed several times over time. Moreover, during that 2000 year evolution Christianity has splintered into 38,000+/- and growing denominations of which some concentrate more on the current hell and damnation theme then on Jesus Himself. So, if this seeming process is even remotely true and continues in such a manner then it seems the practitioners of Christianity have no choice, whatsoever, IMO, to reach deeper and deeper into faith alone about those seeming fantacies for the future that fly in the face of reason. It is a one way road to extinction. Christianity no longer has the power and control over itself and others as it used to have. Fewer people are accepting the "born into sin so believe or go to hell" bottom line skeleton left to nurture the world with. A fanciful "Return" therefore becomes the very destroyer of the hope that Jesus infused into the world. Free . man
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24HourNut Administrator aka Frank
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Fewer people are accepting the "born into sin so believe or go to hell" bottom line skeleton left to nurture the world with. EXACTLY, and for good reason.  We don't have to see the world as an ignorant medieval person.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member  Searching The Hearts Of Man
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Does hell change because people no longer accept it?
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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24HourNut Administrator aka Frank
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: Does hell change because people no longer accept it? Your question assumes that Hell is real or God made a place to torture people for all eternity because they picked the wrong religion - even if they were good people. That assumption is over the top to me. I feel that better questions may be: Should common sense get thrown out the window because people wrote stuff down long ago? How long should we pretend that Hell wasn't a totally man-made invention and not of a Loving God?
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Searching The Hearts Of Man
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You can pretend that there is no hell. I choose the Loving God who died for me and gave Himself for me.
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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24HourNut Administrator aka Frank
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: You can pretend that there is no hell. I choose the Loving God who died for me and gave Himself for me. There might be a Hell. My Loving God wouldn't send good people there, though. Your's might.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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berinwitness Original500© Member
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: Baha'i... use a little of the bible to bring people in thinking they are biblically sound. Then, when you come in... you find an entirely different gospel message, practice and teaching that is different from the bible. Wrong for two reasons. The Baha'i Faith began among Shi'i Muslims. Whether our teachings did or did not agree with the Bible would have been irrelevant. Secondly, our beliefs are all published. Nothing is hidden from non-Baha'is who wish to investigate.
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24HourNut Administrator aka Frank
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It seems both the Bahai and Christians are sourced in sexism, disallowing women, for one reason or the other, from attaining the highest positions in their main governing bodies. I believe that is reflective of the general treatment of women as second class at the time those religions were made.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Searching The Hearts Of Man
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Well, I can't speak for the Bahai, but the 66 books of the bible without question and with investigation point to outside inspiration. The Bahai organization and Shi'i Muslims had access to bibles if needed. The Bahai faith has a mix of Islam, Christianity, New Age, Humanism and Judaism wrapped into one tempting sweet sounding package.
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Searching The Hearts Of Man
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The gods of this world are empty and vain, They cannot give peace to one’s heart; The living and true One deserves all our love— From Him may we never depart. —D. De Haan
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Searching The Hearts Of Man
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Who made heaven and earth, The sea, and all that is in them; Who keeps truth forever... Psalm 146:6
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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wallstreetman Original500© Member Patriot
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The BIG problem with modern religions? Just like the ones of old, THEY ARE MAN MADE. Last edited on 02:49 pm by wallstreetman |
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wallstreetman Original500© Member Patriot
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The material thinking man that is!
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Free.man Original500© Member
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wallstreetman wrote: The BIG problem with modern religions?Dear friend, Most people often dance around this subject. We all know in most repects this is absolutely true. Every major religion before Christianity has no unquestionable verifiable recognized author(s). However established, what remains of all these religions were brought foreward and maintained to one degree or another by man. Jesus never wrote anything Himself and there is little or nothing remaining from Jesus' followers and so on that is not in many ways questionable. Many say that whatever claims He reportedly made; He was still a man. We do know that a variety of men, some known; others not; thereafter, established and maintained the Scriptures. Christianity has therefore settled into acknowledging, even to itself, and to all others, that their Scriptures are at best the "inspired" Word of God. We all recognise that the Christian claim can never overcome this reality; this truth; that Christian Scripture is at best maintained by men. The Councils; the Popes; Martin Luther; et al; evidences this march through history. The very acknowledgement by Christians of God's Word by inspiration passed down from man to man only eventually brought about the notion that only "by faith alone" one is saved and so it appears that whatever the Bible says is literally true as long as one has faith enough to be, as others spar, unquestioning. So, the notion that religion is man made is reasonably supported. Muhammad comes along and we find the claim that there is more then "inspiration". There is "dictation" from God. Many people, then and now, see Muhammad as just a man. We are directed to Muhammad's words also that express such a notion. Muhammad, the man, insists that His followers memorize the Qur'anic Scriptures. At that time in history many of Muhammad's followers, enemies and so forth wrote down their own understandings and happenings. Some time after the passing of Muhammad the Scriptures were compiled and maintained by men, many known, some not. An extensive record(Hadith)and stories of Muhammad's life was written down and maintained by men. Islam is the first religion that has some real verifiable written connection between It's founder and it's revealed Scripture. Wthin Islamic Scripture, Muhammad claims connection with many previous religions. There is some reported modification, over time, of Scripture but it is essential the same Scripture that Muhammad presented. Scripture is replete with stories, allegories and so forth. Men then and now attempt to understand and maintain these "revealed" Scriptures. Since the time of Muhammad a number of religions have come to fore of which the founder and their revealed, inspired and so forth Scriptures have been maintained with a direct connection to the founder. Most of these founders of these differing religions are acknowledged as being men. So the notion that religion is man made is supported. I'll stop here for now - have things to do Free . . . man
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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Religion & Philosophy > The BIG problem with modern religions: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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