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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Religion & Philosophy > A Clash Of Civilizations |
| Moderated by: 24HourNut | Page:   1 2 3 4 5 6 7   |
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24HourNut Administrator  Body pillows rock!
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My issue is whether or not human law, or what a majority is doing or what a particular culture is condoning, makes something moral or worthy of being deemed acceptable to the divine. I don't see how one can conclude that, unless they emotionally needed it to be to fit their agenda. I don't see how one can believe something along the lines of "well, killing kids for believing another religion was acceptable in that society, so person X was not doing anything immoral or unholy by engaging in that activity." That's BS logic. At least say you don't know if God was AOK with it. Don't go around saying Person X was not doing anything immoral or unholy because that particular group of humans made laws or felt it was OK.
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Popeyesays Guardian1000© Member
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24HourNut wrote: My issue is whether or not human law, or what a majority is doing or what a particular culture is condoning, makes something moral or worthy of being deemed acceptable to the divine. I don't see how one can conclude that, unless they emotionally needed it to be to fit their agenda. I don't see how one can believe something along the lines of "well, killing kids for believing another religion was acceptable in that society, so person X was not doing anything immoral or unholy by engaging in that activity." That's the point. I can't say people obeying their society's laws about something as profound and mundane as marriage are doing anything 'unholy' 'immoral'. In the Torah God ordains marriage upon man, but He does not even suggest what the "age of consent" might be. Times change, man perceives that. Does God even worry aobut perceiving time as one event at a time? I certainly can't tell you, and I consider that if one is even for a second willing say what God finds moral or immoral then one is making himself a partner with God an equal with God and that agenda is worrisome to me. Regards, Scott
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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That poor 6 year old ...
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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Aethelred Pioneer100© Member  Ye Olde Dead King
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Popeyesays wrote: "As such it was not moral for Muhammed or the Visigoths to marry a 6 year old then, just as it would not be moral for a 56 year old man to marry a 6 year old today." I am sorry that I have such outlandish beliefs about it being wrong for a 56 year old man to rape a six year old girl. I am not as advanced in my beliefs as you are so I am not able to excuse that sort of wickedness.
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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Aethelred wrote: He actually married Aisha when she was six, but the marriage was not consumated until after she was "of age" by the standards of the culture--had gone through menarche when she was nine. This was also the standard of age measure in France, England, the Papal States, The Holy Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, and Visigothic Spain as well. Most of what's on that list is Christian countries. the country you revere most - England, practiced the VERY same thing under Christian rule for several centuries. As did most of the rest of Europe. From what I can recall, the tradition did NOT begin in Arabia, but was something learned from what would be the West in later centuries.
Armed with the power of Thy name nothing can ever hurt me, and with Thy love in my heart all the world's afflictions can in no wise alarm me. |
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Aethelred Pioneer100© Member Ye Olde Dead King
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sirlamre wrote: Aethelred wrote:He actually married Aisha when she was six, but the marriage was not consumated until after she was "of age" by the standards of the culture--had gone through menarche when she was nine. This was also the standard of age measure in France, England, the Papal States, The Holy Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, and Visigothic Spain as well. England in the Middle Ages is not a shining example of moral goodness either. You should also note that much of England during the time of Muhammed was still pagan. Still the custom in Europe was for very young children to be engaged to other very young children, not for them to be molested by 56 year old men.
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Aethelred Pioneer100© Member Ye Olde Dead King
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sirlamre wrote: Aethelred wrote:He actually married Aisha when she was six, but the marriage was not consumated until after she was "of age" by the standards of the culture--had gone through menarche when she was nine. This was also the standard of age measure in France, England, the Papal States, The Holy Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, and Visigothic Spain as well. I have just done a little research on the subject and I have not been able to locate examples of children being married to adults in medieval Europe. It also seem s to have been very unusual even in Arabia in Muhammed's time. There are cases of children as young as Muhammed's bride being engaged in Europe, but they were engaged to people close to their own age and not married until they reached a more reasonable age. A marriage between a 6 year old and someone aged 56 was not a standard in Europe as Scott claims it was. It also does not appear to be a standard in Arabia. It was most unusual. I believe the reason it is so unusual is that any 56 year old with any hint of conscience knows that it is wrong!
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Aethelred Pioneer100© Member Ye Olde Dead King
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How does modern human ethics defend the rights of folks who have long since passed to dust? Scott, There is no such thing as "human ethics." Ethics and morality are not derived from human nature, they are dictated by God. As such they do not change, if something is wrong today it has always been wrong, PERIOD. Of course this is not to be confused with certain rules that were intended to address a specific and temporary situation. However, all humans are hard-wired by nature/God to innately know when something is wrong.
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Popeyesays Guardian1000© Member
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Aethelred wrote: How does modern human ethics defend the rights of folks who have long since passed to dust? Start with Socrates, Plato and Aristotle and tell them that. Then move on to Hume, Mills, Hegel and Nietzsche. Make a stop along the way to tip your hat to William of Ockham and Descarte. Regards, Scott
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Popeyesays Guardian1000© Member
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Aethelred wrote: sirlamre wrote:Aethelred wrote:He actually married Aisha when she was six, but the marriage was not consumated until after she was "of age" by the standards of the culture--had gone through menarche when she was nine. This was also the standard of age measure in France, England, the Papal States, The Holy Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, and Visigothic Spain as well. So, if she had been eighteen and he had been 69--that would have been hunkdory and okeydoke? I could point out Abraham and Keturah from the Torah. I pointed out the EMpress of Byzantium married at eight to a fourteen year old Emperor, but there are others. Has your research gone to seeing what the girl thought about it all? Regards, Scott
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Aethelred Pioneer100© Member Ye Olde Dead King
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Start with Socrates, Plato and Aristotle and tell them that. Then move on to Hume, Mills, Hegel and Nietzsche. Make a stop along the way to tip your hat to William of Ockham and Descarte. Those are all flawed humans like you and I, they do not have authority to set any standards.
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Aethelred Pioneer100© Member Ye Olde Dead King
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I could point out Abraham and Keturah from the Torah. You could, but nowhere does the Bible say how old she was. However, she was old enough to bear children, so it is safe to say that she was older than the six year old Muhammed raped! I can't believe some people are so blind to what is right and what is wrong that they can overlook this!
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Popeyesays Guardian1000© Member
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Aethelred wrote: I could point out Abraham and Keturah from the Torah. Aisha did not go to live with Muhammed until she had reached the age of nine, so she was never touched by Him at the age of six. What made her 'legal' at age 9? Menarche and maturity. A meccan male was a man shortly after his first nocturnal emission, that event marked him a man. A Jew of the period and indeed to this very day is legally of age at thirteen, they bow to local law, of course. Baha`i's mark the age of maturity at fifteen, but where local law demands more years, we follow local law. I'm in Oklahoma and with parental consent kids can marry at fourteen--doesn't happen often, of course and it's usually because a bun is in the oven anyway, but it happens. In Arkansas, it's at least thirteen and maybe even a little younger. Remember Jerry Lee Lewis married a thirteen year old not that many years ago--all nice and legal though it did play Hobbe with his public image at the time. Regards, Scott
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cynicalninja Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member  Smiling Shinobi
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Aethelred wrote: Start with Socrates, Plato and Aristotle and tell them that. Then move on to Hume, Mills, Hegel and Nietzsche. Make a stop along the way to tip your hat to William of Ockham and Descarte. I set my own standards. I do not try to live up to the so called standards of a god I don't believe in. My own standards are every bit as high and exacting as any gods.
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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Muhammed was an unholy, demented you know what. 6, 9?
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Religion & Philosophy > A Clash Of Civilizations | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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