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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Religion & Philosophy > The Bahai And The U.N. |
| Moderated by: 24HourNut | Page:   ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9   |
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation 
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Popeyesays wrote: Brian wrote:Popeyesays wrote:All nations retain only the military force required to defend territory and maintain order. When has a nation ever knowingly gone against its self-interest? Popeyesays wrote: 2) If nations reduce defenses, and each nation contributes to the defense of pact members there will be enough force to restore the borders of any nations. Again, what nation would be foolish enough to do that? Voluntarily lowering your defenses is national suicide. Popeyesays wrote: 3) No one is saying that sovereignty musy be surrendered. In fact sovereignty is guaranteed. If you're limiting a country's forces, you're limiting their sovereignty. This is different than a treaty that limits what kind of arms you can develop. Saying that a nation can only have enough forces to defend their territory limits how they can respond to other threats outside their borders. (Think of WWII.) Popeyesays wrote: 4) The Articles failed. Why duplicate failure? The Articles failed because they were trying to form a government. This isn't a government we're talking about. It's strictly a military alliance. If the Articles of Confederation had been used strictly for that purpose, it would've been a successful document. The problem was that the United States needed a central government, which the Articles of Confederation couldn't give.
 "It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member  Without Jesus we fall short...
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Jesus did not come to earth to unify all religions together but to bring division. Christianity does not blend but is abrasive to other beliefs. Jesus say's that no one comes to the Father but through Him. The Bahai leader teaches that soon there will be a uniting of all major world religions. This is opposite to what Jesus taught and is contrary to the word of God. Jesus said,"Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division." "For from now on five in one house will be divided: three against two, and two against one." "Father will be divided against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." Those who stand for Christ alone in a world that says all religions come from the same god will be persecuted. Those who preach Jesus will be persecuted under the new plans of unity by the U.N. and Bahai organization. Last edited on 05:22 am by JustifiedByFaith Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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muddawber Guardian1000© Member 
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muddawber wrote: Let's get back on track here, and stop chasing rabbits. There are questions that have not been answered. I am still waiting for answers to these questions.
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Amy Original500© Member  ...going with the flow...
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muddawber wrote: muddawber wrote:Let's get back on track here, and stop chasing rabbits. There are questions that have not been answered. Hi Mud, I posed your questions at Planet Baha'i, and Dale Lehman (the forum owner) gave me permission to post his reply here....if time allows I may add a few thoughts of my own. Thanks Dale!  There will be two principal stages: the Lesser Peace and the Most Great Peace. The Lesser Peace is a political process that happens without much reference to the Baha'i Faith (although we are called to support its development). It happens when the nations of the world are, essentially, backed into a corner. We don't know the nature of the crisis (or crises) that will bring them to this state, but at some point the leaders of the world must come together to create a binding treaty among all nations that fixes borders and levels of armaments and is enforced through a collective security pact. It is likely they won't take this step willingly. It is likely there will be a lot of mutual suspicion and doubt. There will probably be many naysayers. But it will be seen as at least the lesser of a myriad evils, the only way anyone can find to get out of whatever problems are plaguing the planet. This is not demilitarization, by the way but a reduction in force levels. With a collective security pact in place, armaments can be restricted to the level necessary for each country to secure its own borders and nothing more. Moreover, the penalty for any government that defies this treaty is death. Baha'u'llah states that if any one nation violates it, all the others (collective security) must arise to destroy that government. So there would be a pretty strong incentive to adhere to the treaty. The Most Great Peace, on the other hand, is built upon the spiritual principles that Baha'u'llah teaches. It can only come about when sufficient numbers of people have accepted Him and are seeking to live by those principles. It is supported by universal education, equality of women, elimination of all forms of prejudice, harmony of science and religon, and similar social principles taught by Baha'u'llah. It arises because people see themselves as world citizens first and as national citizens second. (More on that below.) It might not. Indeed, Baha'u'llah predicts that there will be many convulsions before people wake up to the reality of His teachings. Primarily, the world's ills are due to a failure to heed the divine teachings. Somewhat like states in the U.S. (or states/provinces in most other countries) retain a degree of autonomy while being part of a larger unity. Shoghi Effendi wrote that the Baha'i system is designed to provide the benefits of global unity without the evils of excessive centralization. The Baha'i administrative system offers a model of this, in fact, with administrative bodies at local, national, and international levels, each one functioning within its own sphere of influence and not responsible to the higher levels. People will always have a special affinity for the place in which they were born. We have no trouble being citizens of a town or city as well as citizens of a state or province as well as citizens of a country. Why should adding just one more layer be a problem? Christians should certainly understand this. Christ called us to love all people. So in a sense, Christians must already understand world unity. Keep track in what sense? Law enforcement will always be one of the jobs of the government. However, in a future where people are more spiritual, crime will be greatly reduced. Only a negligible few will even think to commit a crime. For most people, the very thought of commiting a crime would be repugnant. Well, if you decide to commit crimes or advocate violent overthrow of the government I suppose you might have a problem. ;-) But if you mean in terms of religious faith, Baha'u'llah states that people must be free to make up their own minds in matters of religion. He categorically forbids the use of force for that purpose. ___________________
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foxglovepress Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member  NON-PC!!
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Boy, these two statements are slapping me in the face right now! Baha'i system is designed to provide the benefits of global unity without the evils of excessive centralization. The Baha'i administrative system offers a model of this, in fact, with administrative bodies at local, national, and international levels, each one functioning within its own sphere of influence and not responsible to the higher levels. So the Baha'i are involved with the NWO! Well, if you decide to commit crimes or advocate violent overthrow of the government I suppose you might have a problem. ;-) But if you mean in terms of religious faith, Baha'u'llah states that people must be free to make up their own minds in matters of religion. He categorically forbids the use of force for that purpose. This wreaks of Baha'i support and involvement!
Justice for Mark.....Imprison Employers Who Hire ILLEGALS! |
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24HourNut Administrator  Body pillows rock!
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Throw in the "Most Great Peace" and we have another organized religion that thinks it was God's plan to have them be popular, at the top, or dominant globally. In fact, the Bahai go one step further - they work to be at the top of a NWO with the American Constitution put in the back seat.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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Amy Original500© Member ...going with the flow...
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foxglovepress wrote: Boy, these two statements are slapping me in the face right now! Hi Fox, Personally I see no correlation. I think you're confusing the issues. As I've mentioned many times. There is what is known among Baha'i's as the World Order of Baha'u'llah. This is not the same thing as the New World Order that you hear mentioned by others. Though some goals may be similar, there are tremendous differences. The World Order of Baha'u'llah will come about voluntarily, no ones rights will ever be violated. No one will ever be in a position of personal power. The New World Order Rob and others talk about, is one in which individuals seek power for a few. This is completely contrary to Baha'i teachings and is doomed to failure. First of all, we need to understand that we do in fact share this planet with everyone else. We are a global community whether we want to be or not. Baha'u'llah lays out a plan on how to best come to terms with this. Secondly, the Baha'i Administration deals solely with the Baha'i community. Those who are not Baha'i are in no way held to Baha'i standards of conduct. Last edited on 09:00 pm by Amy |
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Amy Original500© Member ...going with the flow...
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24HourNut wrote: Throw in the "Most Great Peace" and we have another organized religions that thinks it was God's plan to have them be popular, at the top, or dominant globally. In fact, the Bahai go one step further - they work to be at the top of a NWO with the American Constitution put in the back seat.   On the contrary, the American Constitution...a government by the people, for the people, is highly regarded by Baha'i's all over the world.
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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Amy wrote: 24HourNut wrote:Throw in the "Most Great Peace" and we have another organized religions that thinks it was God's plan to have them be popular, at the top, or dominant globally. In fact, the Bahai go one step further - they work to be at the top of a NWO with the American Constitution put in the back seat.  Sorry, I got scared.Yeah, BUT, the Bahai plans effectively diminish it and put it in the back seat in order for America to conform to the set up.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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Amy Original500© Member ...going with the flow...
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24HourNut wrote: Amy wrote:24HourNut wrote:Throw in the "Most Great Peace" and we have another organized religions that thinks it was God's plan to have them be popular, at the top, or dominant globally. In fact, the Bahai go one step further - they work to be at the top of a NWO with the American Constitution put in the back seat. not exactly...  "...may America become the distributing center of spiritual enlightenment, and all the world receive this heavenly blessing! For America has developed powers and capacities greater and more wonderful than other nations. While it is true that its people have attained a marvelous material civilization, I hope that spiritual forces may animate this great body and a corresponding spiritual civilization be established. May the inhabitants of this country become like angels of heaven with faces turned continually toward God. May all of them become the servants of the Omnipotent One. May they rise from present material attainments to such a height that heavenly illumination may stream from this center to all the peoples of the world." (Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 19) "The continent of America," He so significantly wrote, "is, in the eyes of the one true God, the land wherein the splendors of His light shall be revealed, where the mysteries of His Faith shall be unveiled, where the righteous will abide, and the free assemble." (Shoghi Effendi, The Advent of Divine Justice, p. 6)
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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But Amy, to be subject to the authority of a central governing body as was outlined, and be punished for lack of conformity and all that, is not a sovereign, independent nation with a Constitution like America. Those two things don't jive with the new world order the Bahais would like to see.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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Amy Original500© Member ...going with the flow...
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24HourNut wrote: But Amy, to be subject to the authority of a central governing body as was outlined, and be punished for lack of conformity and all that, is not a sovereign, independent nation with a Constitution like America. Those two things don't jive with the new world order the Bahais would like to see. But this is only AFTER all parties have accepted and agreed to the all the terms beforehand. In my understanding this Central Governing Body would not have anything to do with what goes on within national boundaries of individual countries. But would step in to resolve disputes between countries. Unless a country asked them for advice regarding a national issue.
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muddawber Guardian1000© Member
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Amy wrote: 24HourNut wrote:But Amy, to be subject to the authority of a central governing body as was outlined, and be punished for lack of conformity and all that, is not a sovereign, independent nation with a Constitution like America. Those two things don't jive with the new world order the Bahais would like to see. And you really think this is the way it will be? That is very naive. This "Central Governing Body" , as you call it, is just that, a government. It will control what goes on within a country. Any governments of the individual nations, will be only puppet governments of this "Central Governing Body". You are also overlooking the demilitarization of the world. The only one who will have a military is this said,"Central Governing Body" govern:transitive verb 1 a: to exercise continuous sovereign authority over; especially : to control and direct the making and administration of policy in intransitive verb1: to prevail or have decisive influence : control2: to exercise authority So, all of this leads me to one conclusion. Tis New/One World Order, will be set up to rule the entire world. Any government that won't co-operate, will be destroyed, along with any individual that doesn't go along with the plan. I'm sorry, but I don't buy into this Lesser Peace, and I certainly don't see this Most Great Peace happening either, at least not for me. I will not "go gentle into that good night."
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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Amy wrote: 24HourNut wrote:But Amy, to be subject to the authority of a central governing body as was outlined, and be punished for lack of conformity and all that, is not a sovereign, independent nation with a Constitution like America. Those two things don't jive with the new world order the Bahais would like to see. So then the Bahais seek a new world order with Bahai center stage, basically.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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Popeyesays Guardian1000© Member
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