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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Religion & Philosophy > The Official Christianity vs Baha'i Topic! |
| Moderated by: 24HourNut | Page:   ... 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 ...   |
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24HourNut Administrator  Body pillows rock!
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The problem is that anything Scott suggests that is not in line with what JBF currently believes can be deemed as deceit, since the deceit the Bible warns of, or just deceit in general, can come in the form that Scott delivers his message with. On the flip side, JBF is closed to seeing the Bible in any other way but the way he currently views it so is locked into whatever flaws he may or may not have regarding it. Another example of the inherent problem with organized religions based upon text, or having multiple organized religions in the world.
 The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member  Without Jesus we fall short...
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24HourNut wrote: The problem is that anything Scott suggests that is not in line with what JBF currently believes can be deemed as deceit, since the deceit the Bible warns of, or just deceit in general, can come in the form that Scott delivers his message with. On the flip side, JBF is closed to seeing the Bible in any other way but the way he currently views it. What should one base truth on...feelings?
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: 24HourNut wrote:The problem is that anything Scott suggests that is not in line with what JBF currently believes can be deemed as deceit, since the deceit the Bible warns of, or just deceit in general, can come in the form that Scott delivers his message with. On the flip side, JBF is closed to seeing the Bible in any other way but the way he currently views it. That's what you're doing now.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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Incorrect. I see, feel and live my life with Christ in me and His attributes are very visible and real to me.
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: Incorrect. I see, feel and live my life with Christ in me and His attributes are very visible and real to me. Right, but you assess what is true and what is not by your feelings - if something feels like deceit, if you feel a verse means A, B, and C, if you feel something is wrong or right. It's all about your senses and feelings - i.e. views. Your view of the world and what is true to you has a lot to do with how you see youself in the world and other various feelings or views.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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That's fair. I think feelings play a large role in all of one's overall decision making process. Some use little logic and all feeling and others have suppressed feelings and attempt to come to truth with logic alone. I think it requires a balance. There are also languages that must be translated into english to understand the origianl intent of the biblical writers. When an interpretation goes against the writers original language and it's intent it is then like putting words into someones mouth for personal gain.
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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True about original intent. Knowing the full range of the author's original intent is so very difficult and open to interpretation - especially when housed in a book like the Bible that is full of allegory and symbolism, and even embellishment. That speaks to my original point - that is an inherent problem with archaic text-based organized religion. That is why experts don't agree and we have so many sects. There is no one absolute and clear truth to unite all. There isn't even objective evidence to say which religion is 100% right or if any are.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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Free.man Original500© Member
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24HourNut wrote: True about original intent. Knowing the full range of the author's original intent is so very difficult and open to interpretation - especially when housed in a book like the Bible that is full of allegory and symbolism, and even embellishment. That speaks to my original point - that is an inherent problem with archaic text-based organized religion. That is why experts don't agree and we have so many sects. There is no one absolute and clear truth to unite all. There isn't even objective evidence to say which religion is 100% right or if any are. Dear friend, The Baha'i Faith is unique in recorded history of religion because the author, Baha'u'llah, did explain His original intent. We have the original documents. Moreover, Baha'u'llah created the whole system for which the original intent was to be applied and Baha'u'llah clearly specifically appointed the only interpreters of all original intent of the original documents. Every Baha'i must first go to Baha'u'llah Himseld; secondly then go to the authorized interpreter and then has the right and responsibility to interpret for themself(hense, no priesthood) but can not say that one's own interpretation is the right interpretation. The chain of authority is unbreakable. As you say; Christianity has no original text from Jesus nor any of His direct disciples who were with Jesus during His ministry. Jesus left no authorized interpreter. Hense, anyone can say their own interpretation is as valid as anyone else's. Furthermore, reportedly, the founder of every major religion interpreted the original intent of the previous major religions. As a Baha'i, I support the notion that each Founder of these major religions did have the authority to do this. This very notion may be worth studying, Free.man
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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Free.man wrote: 24HourNut wrote:True about original intent. Knowing the full range of the author's original intent is so very difficult and open to interpretation - especially when housed in a book like the Bible that is full of allegory and symbolism, and even embellishment. That speaks to my original point - that is an inherent problem with archaic text-based organized religion. That is why experts don't agree and we have so many sects. There is no one absolute and clear truth to unite all. There isn't even objective evidence to say which religion is 100% right or if any are. Then let me make two suggestions for you... #1. Leave the bible alone and Christianity hense in your words there is no credible authorized interpretation. #2. It doesn't matter what Baha'u'llah wrote or said or how it came to the Bahai people because it has no bearing as to Baha'u'llah's credibilty as a claimed Manifestation from God.
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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The Baha'i Faith is unique in recorded history of religion because the author, Baha'u'llah, did explain His original intent. We have the original documents. Moreover, Baha'u'llah created the whole system for which the original intent was to be applied and Baha'u'llah clearly specifically appointed the only interpreters of all original intent of the original documents. It does and will still suffer the fate of the other text-based religious systems. We have evidence of that today. History proves this. It is also common sense. There are problems inherent with that kind of system and there is no getting around it - especially when the person is dead and can't be questioned or tested for miracle/supernatural abilities. It's all just talk and text, like the others. Still confusion and conflict fueling, like the others.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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Free.man Original500© Member
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: That's fair. I think feelings play a large role in all of one's overall decision making process. Dear friend, I don't think anyone here expects any of us to be without our own feelings nor reasoning , however, abandoning one or the other entirely definately does not work. I've found that the average Christian(if there is such a person) is overly prone to their own emotions and tend to abandon reason. I suspect that this very thread that was started by a Christian was started out of intense feelings. There are later posts bemoaning(feelings) even starting the thread. I agree there aught to be balance. I, as a Baha'i, study not only the hundreds of volumes of Baha'i Scripture but those of Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism and much more. I also study many commentaries on same mostly written by the followers of those religions. I try to get to the truth no matter from what source it comes from. Alack, I've found few if any Christians who even care to know even the basics about their own religion, let alone another religion. Most Christians seem to me to be so disinterested in even their own religion. The Christian only cares to repeat someone else's interpretation without question just as they have been trained to do. They often throw out a Bible quote without studying it and then complain about other's mis-interpretation of the very quote the neglected to study themselves. Then they often condemn others for not interpreting the quote the way that Christian wants everyone to interpret it. The outcome of such a thread like - Christianity vs. Baha'i - only shows the Baha'is are not only prevailing because of it but will always prevail. You might be interested in a book I have called - Multipurpose Tools For Bible Study - written by a Christian scholar, Fredrick Danker. The author has a lot to say about interpreting the Bible. There are chapters on languages, grammatical use and such. The author therein quotes scholars and others. One such is William Cowper(p306): A critic on the sacred book should be Candid and learn'd, dispassionate and free: Free from the wayward bias bigots feel, From fancy's influence and intemperate zeal; (For) of all arts sagacious dupes invent To cheat themselves and gain the world's assent, The worst is - Scripture warp'd from its intent. Free.man
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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Free.man says: "The outcome of such a thread like - Christianity vs. Baha'i - only shows the Baha'is are not only prevailing because of it but will always prevail." JBF say's: "It "seems" that way." There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death. Proverbs 16:25
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
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Alack, I've found few if any Christians who even care to know even the basics about their own religion, let alone another religion. Most Christians seem to me to be so disinterested in even their own religion. The Christian only cares to repeat someone else's interpretation without question just as they have been trained to do. They often throw out a Bible quote without studying it and then complain about other's mis-interpretation of the very quote the neglected to study themselves. Then they often condemn others for not interpreting the quote the way that Christian wants everyone to interpret it. This is true in my experience. I am surrounded by mostly Christians and always was, and always found them to not even really believe what the Bible says when questioned or challenged. For example, they don't buy that their kids, family members, parents, etc. will be punished by God after they die. I also find they are generally ignorant about the Bible and not really familiar with it. They are Christian just because they were raised and conditioned to be. In truth, there are very few real Christians around me, but lots of so called Christians. Yet, they are mostly passionate about the few views they have as if expert on the Bible or as if they really cared. Meanwhile, you can tell from their lives, that they really don't and it is mostly all conditioning, culture, tradition, brainwashing, etc. Mainly, emotional stuff and it feels good to them to be something, in a religious club, like Christianity. When questioned about any details, they almost always fold or get defensive, because they are ignorant and not truly into it. They don't even buy much of it - like Noha's Ark and Adam & Even with the talking snake. They really don't.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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Free.man Original500© Member
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24HourNut wrote: The Baha'i Faith is unique in recorded history of religion because the author, Baha'u'llah, did explain His original intent. We have the original documents. Moreover, Baha'u'llah created the whole system for which the original intent was to be applied and Baha'u'llah clearly specifically appointed the only interpreters of all original intent of the original documents. Dear friend, What you seem to neglect is that Baha'is are not confused nor in conflict and do know that there is a time line and an ending for the Baha'i Faith. It is history making. The problems, confusion and conflict come when others stuggle against God's will. Also, it is your problem that you were not alive when Baha'u'llah was so you could question Him or personally test His supernatural abilities. I'd say the authentic authoritative Text is there for if and when you want to study them. I'm not sure where you think whining about it will get you. Just sayin. Free.man
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Free.man Original500© Member
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: Free.man says: "The outcome of such a thread like - Christianity vs. Baha'i - only shows the Baha'is are not only prevailing because of it but will always prevail." Dear friend, Let's see - You refuse to study your own religion and your only come-back is a quote from that very source? Do you really prefer ignorance over knowing yourself? How does pulling a Hilary like this advance Christianity? Oh, I think I get it: you loan yourself a quote and expect me to donate what I know to buy you out of it? Free  man
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