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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > 24's Religion & Philosophy > The Official Christianity vs Baha'i Topic! |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member  Without Jesus we fall short...
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Free.man, You can clap your hands and look in the mirror. You will not see Jesus in your midst clapping with you. The Bahai faith teaches contrary to the gospel of Christ. Baha'ullah can not clap with you either. Come to God though His only Son Free.man who alone is Mediator between God and man. It's sad Free.man...very sad.
 Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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cynicalninja Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member  Smiling Shinobi
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Free.man wrote: Dear friend, You have once again exposed yourself as:- A - Someone who doesn't listen or thoroughly read and understand another persons post before offering a relevant reply. B - A self aggrandizing, self congratulatory ignoramus whos head has disappeared so far up his own rectum you need to be given an enema when you are thirsty. C - A person with a tone so condescending it would make a kindergarden teacher blush. With people like you promoting the Bahai faith I can seriously see membership numbers dropping off as a result. Thankfully I have the ignore button to filter you out of my life on a permanent basis. Toodle pip !
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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Bahá'í's DENY THE MESSAGE OF THE BIBLE The Bahá'í's claim that they uphold the Bible but what they actually do is reinterpret it so that it no longer means what the writers had intended. “ For god to descend into the conditions of existence would be the greatest of imperfection's. “ (Abdul Baha Questions pgs. 129-130 ) While someone can claim God is unwilling to become a man, they cannot say it is impossible. Like their counterpart Islam they deny this is possible, but God is able to do all things. The Scriptures (the Bible) say he would become a man and visit his people, and die for their sins. Isaiah 63:8 ... “ so he became their savior in all their affliction he was afflicted and the messenger of his presence saved them.” Luke 2:11 “for their is born to you this day in the city of David a savior who is Christ the Lord” (Meaning God). “Jesus was not the only-begotten Son of God come down from Heaven, crucified and resurrected, nor the unique Saviour. (Firuz Kazemzedun World Order summer 1978 p.39 the National Spiritual Assembly of the Bahai’s of the United states). The Bible is absolutely clear on this, he is called the only begotten son, meaning unique, one of a kind. To deny this, which is what their representative did, is to deny The Father and Jesus himself who said this. “Was Christ within god, or God within Christ ? No in the name of God.” (Abdul Baha Questions pg 97) 1 Cor.5:19 tells us God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. Col.2:9 states Jesus is the fulness of deity in bodily form. That means he was completely God. So who is right, those who were commissioned by Jesus who knew him personally or some religion that came 1800 years afterwards and says something VERY different? What would be the more reasonable answer? Matthew 1:21 “and you shall call his name Jesus for he will save his people from their sins.” V. 23 “and they will call his name Immanuel, God is with us.” Rom. 9:5 ... “ .”according to the flesh, Christ came. who is over all, the eternally blessed God, amen “The Purpose of the one true God, exalted be Hs glory, in revealing Himself unto men is to lay bare those gems that lie hidden within the mine of their true and inmost selves.” (GLEANINGS FROM THE WRITINGS OF BAHA'U'LLA'H p.287) Jesus did reveal what was in man but it is not like what the Bahai says. The Bible says there is nothing good that dwells in man, he is fallen and sinful but here is where their spirituality operates from. Matt 15:19-20 “For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man” Jesus only spoke what God spoke in the Old Testament Jer. 17:9 “The heart is deceitful above all things” Bahá'í's deny God can be known by man, Deny the reality of sin and the existence of a literal Devil, Hell, Heaven. They claim the universe is without beginning a perpetual emanation of the first cause. After death the spirit can progress to a state of perfection. Bahá'í's deny the atonement of Christ to wash sins away. Abdul Baha stated that there is no sin-atoning value in Christ's sacrificial death on the cross. His denial of redemption of Christ led him to think y of himself: “Fix your gaze upon Him who is the Temple of God amongst men. He, in truth, hath offered up his life as a ransom for the redemption of the world.” Bahá'u'lláh thought of himself as this without sacrificing his life. Certainly even if he did it could have no redeeming value as Christ', since He was not sinless. Does a Bahá'í believe that we are born in sin? That we die because of sin, that we are separated from God because of our sin? For one to become a Bahá'í they do not have to acknowledge sin. The Jesus Christ of Christianity of the Bible is ALL about SIN and God reconciling us ONLY through his Son. If Bahá'í's believed in sin the way Jesus taught, they would acknowledge Jesus died for their sin and believe the gospel is the ONLY way to be saved from the consequence of their sin. They would be following Jesus and have a relationship with God because the wall of sin that separated them was now taken away because of ONE THING, the sacrificial death of Jesus. With particular regard to the Bible, a letter dated 28 May 1984 written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice in response to questions raised by an individual believer outlines two principles to be observed in studying this book. “In studying the Bible Bahá'is must bear two principles in mind. The first is that many passages in Sacred Scripture are intended to be taken metaphorically, not literally, and some of the paradoxes and apparent contradictions which appear are intended to indicate this. The second is the fact that the text of the early Scriptures, such as the Bible, in not wholly authentic...” “...we cannot be sure how much or how little of the four Gospels are accurate and included the words of Christ and His undiluted teachings, all we can be sure of, as Bahá'is is that what has been quoted by Bahá'u'llah and the Master ('Abdu'l-Baha) must be absolutely authentic. As many times passages in the Gospel of St. John are quoted we may assume that it is his Gospel and much of it (is) accurate.” (Shoghi Effendi) This is verified with letters I have received that they distrust the accuracy of the Scriptures just like liberals do. Yet Jesus said heaven and earth would pass away but not His word. He entrusted the writing and was able to oversee the Bible being written. How? Because he was still alive when it was written, ruling in heaven. All these descriptions of the different religion's have obvious irreconcilable differences with God's nature, his principles and man's relationship to him. All religions are not the same. There are major contradictions on the fundamental core beliefs. This is why God gave us the Bible so there would not be confusion. All religions have mankind pleasing God by the work of his own hand, they reach upward to God. Christianity teaches man is unable to reach God so God himself reached downward with his own hand from heaven, he became a man to accomplish the solution of our dilemma, which has always been sin. Each one of us is to make a personal decision to Christ, not join a religion or become a member. What good is a pantheon of new guides with new information of God which contradict the old revelation. If they are only good for their time then they have no value for us today. With this philosophy brought into everyday life, there would be no continuation of truth that was discovered prior. We would have no absolute truth to hold to. This all goes against the law of non-contradiction. Either they are all wrong or only one is right, but they all can't be right, with so many internal contradictions on God and man's nature. The problem lies in the root of relativism, that there is no absolute truth. The Bahá'í's syncretism is their basic weakness. They reinterpret everyone else's religion by their own opinion, there is no way to be sure. Example: 2+2 always equals 4, then someone comes along and says it's now 5. You can change it, and you can be taught it, but it would not be consistent with the truth and reality. For something to be true it must be true before, true now, and true in the future. Truth does not change, it's absolute, especially when it comes to God. This principle shows the Bahá'í's have no compass. “We must not accept traditional dogmas that are contrary to reason, nor pretend to believe doctrines which we cannot understand. To do so is superstition and not true religion.”(J. E. Esslemont Bahá'u'lláh and His Message, P. 11.) Can anyone understand everything they accept in religion or even in science? Can one explain electricity or computers or the light from the sun? They even go against their own teachings since they do not believe we can know God in a personal way, yet they want people to accept the teaching of a new revelator who can’t know God. Who is to decide what is to be accepted? What one does not understand now may not be so a year from now or even a month. The Bible says “God is not a man that he should lie.” James writes there is no variation or shadow of turning. Jesus said “I am the truth, my word is truth”, God is not going to tell Krishna one thing & Buddha and Moses another on the same subject so that the information is contradictory. Truth by its very nature is internally consistent, if there are various teaching's that are conflicting then they did not come from the same God. If there is one point of conflict on the nature of God we can assume it did not come from the same source, and we can eliminate it as truth. Unless one wants to believe that God is no more intelligent than man and is imperfect. This is why the Bible is so unique, above all other so called Holy Books. It's written by over 40 different authors on 6 different continents over a period of almost 1600 yrs., yet they all agree upon the nature of God and man with a consistent and complimentary world view. Man is dealing with the same problems that he has had from the beginning, he's a fallen creature, a sinner in need of repair and only Jesus has the cure. Bahá'í's do not! Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. Christ is the sinless lamb sacrificed to take away the sin of the world. John the Baptizer announced him as this and we continue to proclaim it. Those who say they do not need Christ’s death on the cross to forgive them of their sin do not understand what sin is, how sinful they are and they do not know how holy God is. On this theme Charles Gore writes: “To recognize this truth is to be struck by the contrast which in this respect Christianity presents to other-'religions. For example, the place which Mohammed holds in Islam is not the place which Jesus Christ holds in Christianity, but that which Moses holds in Judaism. The Arabian prophet made for himself no claim other than that which Jewish prophets made, other than that which all prophets, true or false, or partly true an partly false, have always made,--to speak the word of the Lord. The substance of Mohammedanism, considered as a religion, lies simply in the message which the Koran contains. It is, as no other religion is, founded upon a book. The person of the Prophet has its significance only so far as he is, supposed to have certified the reality of the revelations which the book records. Gautama, again, the founder of Buddhism, one, I suppose, of the noblest and greatest of mankind, is only the discoverer or rediscoverer of a method or way, the way of salvation, by which is meant the way to win final emancipation from the weary chain of existence, and to attain Nirvana, or Parinirvana, the final blessed extinction. Having found this way, after many years of weary searching, he can teach it to others, -but he is, all the time, only a preeminent example of the success of his own method, one of a series of Buddha's or enlightened ones, who shed on other men the light of their superior knowledge.... The founders of ancient religions served only to originate moral or spiritual systems which could BE ACCEPTED by any other men. These men who began these systems did not remain as the source of all that they taught, Even within Judaism and Christianity men like Moses and Paul might have been replaced by other equally good men, but it is not so with Christ. One after another they parade through history yet only one remains, why? Because He alone has the advantage- He is God. And God does not change and neither does His message. wpe26.jpg (961 bytes) © 2008 No portion of this site is to be copied or used unless kept in its original format- the way it appears. 'Let Us Reason Ministries"
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Free.man Original500© Member
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Dear friend, JBF, it appears you again did not check the facts before you rushed to post. The name of this person is not spelled correctly which you took the info from a source hostile to the Baha'i Faith. If so, why not just go to a real Baha'i Faith source to at least check the facts. As Baha'is have said many times before it is just an individual opinion unless it is an authentic verifiable authorized quote. World order is a magazine witha number of articles in each publication. you did not provide the title of the article. Also I'd like to know the context of the quote you provided. Please post the paragraph before and after this reported quote you provided? Moreover, the World Order Magazine has a disclaimer about participants personal opinions published within: "The views expressed herein are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the publisher, the National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of the United States, or of the Editorial Board." When will you ever learn, JBF? Free.man Last edited on 11:47 am by Free.man |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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Free.man wrote: Dear friend, I find it odd that everyone who has left the Bahai faith or has done their homework to understand it's subtle deceptions is then labeled as "hostile" and now therefore has no credibility? This is a typical cult-like response that is often used against those who "leave" a controlling group regardless of their testimony, personal experiences or group research.
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Free.man Original500© Member
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: Free.man wrote:Dear friend, Dear friend, Lets see if I understand your point here: You believe that source you quoted about the Baha'i Faith because the author of the article you quoted was reportedly a former Baha'i so knowledgeable about the Baha'i Faith that they spelled people's names wrong, disregarded the disclaimer about contributing author's personal opinions, put their own opinion above authoritative Baha'i Faith Texts and then claimed their own authority to be the supreme truth anyway? No wonder they left the Baha'i Faith when no one else would allow them to claim they are the only one who knows the truth. I understand why you would believe and propagate such an excursus to support your own glossolalia and bibliomancy. "And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word." - 1 Kings 18:21 - KJV JBF wrote: Let me guess? JBF wrote: Let me guess? JBF wrote: Let me guess? Free.man
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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The Bottom Line Here Is... "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.” 2 Timothy 4:1-4
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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JBF wrote: The 2nd coming of Christ>>(note:future event)" Free.man wrote  ear friend,A future event of 2,000 years ago. JBF wrote: What!!!!! You got to be kidding? I can't even think where begin on that one... Ha! Ha! Ha!
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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Has Christ Returned Already? By Dr. Ken Matto Since the summer of 2004 or maybe even sooner, Harold Camping has been teaching that Christ has already returned and is judging the churches. Not only does this Depart Out heresy take from Dispensationalism, Islam, Seventh Day Adventism and Swedenborgism, now Camping has added a tenet of Preterism to his teaching. Preterists teach that Christ had returned in 70 AD and that the book of Revelation had been fulfilled by that time. Preterists believe that the book of Revelation was written around 65 AD. Preterist comes from the word “preterit” which means “bygone or former.” The Preterists teach that Christ returned invisibly in 70 AD. and this is what Harold Camping is now proclaiming that Christ has returned invisibly to judge the churches. The next time Christ comes will be a visible return. So then Campingism states that Christ came the first time visibly, the second time invisibly, and the third time will be the final visible return of Christ. However, we must look at what the Scriptures teach concerning the return of Christ. The question that we must ask ourselves is, is Christ returning invisibly at any time between His first and second appearances? The answer to that question is no! The Bible clearly teaches that when Christ returns, it will be only one time, not two! Let us look at what the Scriptures teach concerning the second coming of Christ. Acts 1:11 (Acts 1:11 KJV) Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. This verse is very clear that the Disciples had visibly seen Christ ascend into Heaven. The angel then tells them that Christ is going to return in the same manner that they observed Him going into Heaven. What was that manner? It was visibly! Christ did not ascend invisibly but visibly and that is how He is going to return. Hebrews 9:28 (Heb 9:28 KJV) So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. Here is one of the clearest statements in the Scriptures concerning the return of Christ. Notice in this verse we read plainly that the “second” time the Lord returns will be the final time. He will return to take His Elect unto Heaven. The time of salvation is now over as the last one has become saved. Now this brings up a serious situation for Campingism. If the Lord has returned already, for the second time, then how can people become saved since this verse teaches that His next return will be without salvation. Camping himself teaches that there is going to be a great Latter Rain where multitudes of people are going to become saved outside the churches. Now, how then can there be a Latter Rain of salvation if the Lord has already come and the Scripture teaches that when He comes the second time, there will be no more salvation? Remember, Camping is saying that the Lord has already returned which means it was the second time. Here we see that Campingism is proclaiming another major deception. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 Dispensationalism teaches a secret return of Christ but the secret return of Christ is not found anywhere in Scripture. (1 Th 4:16-17 KJV) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: {17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. The Dispensationalists call this a secret rapture. Take a close look at the description of the Lord’s return. There is going to be a “shout with the voice of the archangel” with the “trump of God” and then “the dead in Christ shall rise first.” Now how could this be a secret return of Christ with all this activity going on. Dispensationalists teach that this secret return of Christ will be the second coming and the final return of Christ will be on the last day which will be the third appearance. Do you see the parallel between Dispensationalism and Campingism? Both systems manipulate the Scriptures to make them say what they want. Revelation 1:7 (Rev 1:7 KJV) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. Here is another verse which voids the belief of a secret return of Christ. There is nothing in Scripture which plainly teaches that the second time Christ returns He will only return to few individuals who will understand that He is judging the churches. This verse teaches plainly that when Christ returns “every eye” shall see Him and the verse states that “ALL” the kindreds of the Earth shall wail. Why? Because Judgment Day is here and His return is visible to the whole earth, not just a few self-proclaimed enlightened individuals. Philippians 3:20-21 (Phil 3:20-21 KJV) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: {21} Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. Here is another set of verses concerning the return of the Lord Jesus Christ. These verses reveal to us that when the Lord Jesus returns, He is going to change our vile bodies into the spiritual glorified bodies fit for Heaven. Now if the Lord has returned already, who has received their glorified spiritual body? I haven’t seen anyone yet receive it. Here is another example that the return of the Lord Jesus is going to be visible with visible results. Luke 21:27 (Luke 21:27 KJV) And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Luke describes a time when much perplexities are going to come upon the whole world but in verse 27, the Lord’s return is revealed. The whole world is going to see the return of Christ and it will be in great power and glory. There is nothing silent or invisible about the return of Christ. Summary We have looked at only seven verses and there are many more which describe the second coming of Christ as visible and to the entire world. There is no such thing written in Scripture of a secret return of Christ to judge the churches between His first and second advent. This is just a figment of Camping’s deluded imagination by means of creating his heresy as he goes along. When a congregation goes apostate as many have, then Christ removes their candlestick and they are no longer a true church of the Lord Jesus Christ. There is nothing written in Scripture that He has returned to judge the churches, He is God and can do His judging from Heaven. Christ came the first time to die for the sins of His Elect and He will return a second time to bring those Elect to Heaven and then recreate the New Heavens and the New Earth. I really have pity on those who follow Harold Camping and his scripture manipulations to create this system of heresy and apostasy. That is their conscious decision and one day they are going to be let down and hopefully some of them may make it to glory.
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Free.man Original500© Member
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Dear friend, Still pushing your own bankrupt system, JBF? All that you posted is old information. You have absolutely No authority over the truth let alone the correct interpretation of what the Bible really means. Moreover, insisting that only you therefore know what you believe to be the future is an adumbral as meaningful as your understanding of the past. Free.man
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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So the secret, non-global, no big deal birth of Baha'u'llah is Jesus 2nd coming huh?
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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24HourNut Administrator  Body pillows rock!
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: So the secret, non-global, no big deal birth of Baha'u'llah is Jesus 2nd coming huh? My calculations put the Bahai Second Coming on par with the global impact of garlic powder, or, possibly, fresh basil. If we wanted to be generous in our calculations we could bump it up to, let's say, Teflon-coated cookware or maybe even the blow dryer. 
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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The bible tells us His coming is the "glorious appearing" of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. We are told in the bible that "every eye will see Him". The bible teaches that He will come with clouds from heaven just as He left. The bible teaches that when He comes believers will be changed and "caught up" to meet Him in the air. The bible tells us that along with His coming will be a time of judgment and wrath of the ungodly world. WAS THIS REALLY THE COMING OF BAHA'U'LLAH IN THE 1800s THAT JESUS AND THE BIBLE SPOKE ABOUT?
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Free.man Original500© Member
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JustifiedByFaith wrote: So the secret, non-global, no big deal birth of Baha'u'llah is Jesus 2nd coming huh? Dear friend, Just like the secret, non-global, no big deal birth of Jesus was the 1st coming as you believe. Free.man
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