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| Moderated by: Twitchin Kitten | Page:   1 2 3 4 5   |
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Sweet Pea Original500© Member 
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1jest, I don't know how you come to the conclusion that nobody thinks this dog should be put down. Speaking ONLY for myself, yes, this dog should be put down. THIS dog. Charging the owner with manslaughter is a good start. But breed profiling is almost as bad as racial profiling. So, a 24 year old black man breaks into your house and steals items from you. Do you then go out and round up all 24 year old black men in the area? Of course not. Please look at the links I've posted, or the thread I bumped. Then come back and tell me you'd honestly deny all those people (seniors especially) the unconditional love of those dogs, the lifetime's worth of companionship. We need to educate, that will help. That's what I try to do any time I can. Inflaming and inciting does nobody any good. It's almost like some people think that because I or a few others support pitties right to existence that we don't feel devastated when we hear of an attack. I do. We do. And while I respect people's right to an opinion, even one different from mine, however misguided I might consider that opinion to be, I won't respect anyone who refers to my opinions as ignorant. So I'm asking you in advance, don't do it. I would like some of you to consider how TK has conducted herself here. She could have locked the thread early on, she could have deleted the entire thing. She didn't. That speaks to a very fair-minded person.
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Twitchin Kitten Pioneer100© Member  Don't Dream It ~ Be It
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VERY well said Sweet Pea!
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cynicalninja Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member  Smiling Shinobi
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UsedToRide wrote: cynicalninja wrote:A muzzle is still a practical and humane way of lessening the likelihood of a dog biting somebody or mauling a child to death. Talk about a tenuous analogy !  Comparing the fairly innocuous practice of muzzling a breed of dog known for its aggressive instincts when its out and about in public to lobotomising human beings is stretching your credibility to the max UTR !  Muzzling a dog, which the dog will no doubt find not particulary pleasant or comfortable (more comfortable then being on a lead, having its tail docked or ears clipped, or having its genitals cut off I would guess though) is one thing. Performing major invasive and destructive brain surgery on people with mental health issues is quite another and the most disappointing thing is you know this.  
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cynicalninja Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member Smiling Shinobi
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Twitchin Kitten wrote: A few years ago, a policeman brought his police dog into our office while giving crime details, the dog (a large german shepherd) was fine off the lead, but then he thought it would be clever to put the dog on the lead at which point the dog went freaking beserk. He thought it was very amusing until it grabbed a colleague of mine by the ankle, he didn't think that was very amusing as he saw his career flash before his eyes, he also didn't think is was very amusing when I hit the dog on the back with a metal chair to get it to let go. He was "required" to resign a few weeks later, prick ! I at no point "blamed" the dog. The handler was a prick using the dog as some sort of extension of his small manhood and low libido.......probably.
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UsedToRide Original500© Member  ^^^That is LOVE!!^^^
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cynicalninja wrote: UsedToRide wrote:cynicalninja wrote:A muzzle is still a practical and humane way of lessening the likelihood of a dog biting somebody or mauling a child to death. Did Ninja, of all people, miss the sarcasm and irony of that comment? The point being, folks, is that the more we learn about an issue the better equipped we are to deal with it. People in this discussion do not want to learn, they just want to be right. It is an argument based on emotion, and bred by taking your "education" and your "knowledge" of a topic by zeroing in on what the scripted news tells you. Has anyone ever caught my reference to the "SCRIPTED" news? They tell us what they want to tell us, with the twist in the tale to suit the argument they support. It's the same with the average person, who does NOT have experience, in this discussion. Again, people don't want to learn, they just want to be right, no matter the cost. I see you maintain this "muzzling" theory. I suppose my real-life story of the worst bite I even received being from a muzzled dog didn't suit your argument either, so that part was simply ignored. Another tactic of the breed-specific legislation gang. Quite typical.
 Respect some, trust one, fear none ~~Bullet http://www.freeholbrook.com The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons. ~~Dostoyevsky |
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cynicalninja Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member Smiling Shinobi
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1jester wrote: Twitchin Kitten wrote:So it's the old lady's fault for walking her dogs on a public sidewalk? She has no right to do that? The pit bull's "territory" includes the public sidewalk? Apparently so, I refuse to walk on eggshells for any animal because of what it might or might not do if something I inadvertantly do "triggers" it to attack. I would never and have never deliberately provoked, teased or taunted an animal, to do so is ignorant and the consequences of that taunting or teasing are something you are going to have to live with. However to be attacked for no reason other than because of what the animal perceives as a threat (and that could be anything from the wrong type of clothing flapping in the wind, to a petting hand perceived as a chastising hand) sorry, unacceptable. I was once bitten by a King Charles Spaniel !, lovely dog an ex-girlfriends, never had any problems with it for weeks, then one day while chilling out with it on the sofa it went for me ! properly !, like went for my freaking face !. I had never punched a dog in the face before and hopefully I will never have to again, but holy crap that was scary !, its little teeth were millimetres away from my eyes !  My "crime" ?, my finger inadvertently brushed against one of her toes on her left front paw that she injured a few years previously !. Now how the freaking hell was I supposed to know that ? Any animal that needs a catalogue of does and don't to adhere to so it won't bite your face off, isn't worth having as a pet......in my opinion. Any animal attacking me in such away again will find the base of its skull interfacing violently with my ten pound clawhammer, and its windpipe gently caressing the end of my steel toecap boots.
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Twitchin Kitten Pioneer100© Member Don't Dream It ~ Be It
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I agree. I guess my 30 plus years of experience with dogs - especially vicious and abused dogs that I rehabilitate - and all animals from the domestic to the wild doesn't count when it comes to those who cant focus on the whole picture and refuse an education. Thank you all for pointing out what an idiot I must be! I also want to point out that the word INSTINCT is the most abused word in these arguments. It's a word people use in these kinds of arguments to try to prove a point by saying animals run around mindlessly going about things because they know no better. They can only behave in such a way because INSTINCT tells them. This theory can then go to say animals have no clue they are hungry, INSTICT simply programs them to eat.
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UsedToRide Original500© Member ^^^That is LOVE!!^^^
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By the way, people. Here is an interesting article. Take a moment away from your bias and read the ENTIRE page. Especially to the point where a case of a POMERANIAN KILLING A BABY is noted. Is it time to start whining and begging for banning Pomeranians? Those who wish to continue this debate should really have more facts at their disposal than they currently have. Those of us here who actually have real-life experience and knowledge about this topic and dogs in general would find it most helpful if someone without it would try to learn something other than what is spoonfed to them by the media. Open your mind, just a little and try to learn something other than what your emotion and your uneducated, less-than-knowledgeable brain tells you. Really put an effort into it. Like TK, Sweet Pea and myself have done; put in some effort to learn something about a topic that is important to you. Because if you are here posting in this thread, it must mean something to you. Something more than a chance to argue with people who actually do know what they are talking about. Because you're starting to look a bit silly. http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html#Thedogsmostlikelytobite
Respect some, trust one, fear none ~~Bullet http://www.freeholbrook.com The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons. ~~Dostoyevsky |
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cynicalninja Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member Smiling Shinobi
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UsedToRide wrote: cynicalninja wrote:UsedToRide wrote:cynicalninja wrote:A muzzle is still a practical and humane way of lessening the likelihood of a dog biting somebody or mauling a child to death. I am perhaps a tad sceptical of real life stories that are plucked out of the air to support views so easily. So are you saying that you believe muzzling Pit Bulls will make them MORE dangerous ? that does seem to be indicating where you are trying to go with the story about muzzled labrador. I do want to learn, but I prefer to learn from unbiased people and sources (which are a rare thing these day). I do except that fact that people must take responsibilty in the way they treat, handle and interact with all animals not just Pit Bulls, but the theory that 99% of all Pit Bull attacks are the fault of the victim is absolute bullplop. Animals are NOT inherently bad, NOT inherently good, there are animals, and like mother nature are completely neutral. I accept the fact that a percentage of Pit Bull attacks (maybe the majority) are the fault of humans goading, tormenting or teasing them. But I put it to there is also a sizeable percentage of attacks that ARE the fault of the dog, dogs have good days and bad days, like me, sometimes I'm nice (a mormon comes to the door and I say "no thank you not today", sometimes I'm nasty (a mormon comes to the door and I say "go f**k yourself suit !". I suggest that dogs (all breeds) can be the same, some days they won't mind the big fat kid with the sticky hands and B.O pawing them and dribbling on them, some days the dog will want to bite the fat kids hand off at the wrist ! Animals are not innocent little beings incapable of cruel or violent deeds, we should know we are animals and we are capable of cruel and violent deeds far worse ones than other animals if truth be told.
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1jester Pioneer100© Member  Pilgrim Sojourner
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UsedToRide wrote: By the way, people. Here is an interesting article. Take a moment away from your bias and read the ENTIRE page. Especially to the point where a case of a POMERANIAN KILLING A BABY is noted. Is it time to start whining and begging for banning Pomeranians? Those who wish to continue this debate should really have more facts at their disposal than they currently have. Those of us here who actually have real-life experience and knowledge about this topic and dogs in general would find it most helpful if someone without it would try to learn something other than what is spoonfed to them by the media. Open your mind, just a little and try to learn something other than what your emotion and your uneducated, less-than-knowledgeable brain tells you. Really put an effort into it. Like TK, Sweet Pea and myself have done; put in some effort to learn something about a topic that is important to you. Because if you are here posting in this thread, it must mean something to you. Something more than a chance to argue with people who actually do know what they are talking about. Because you're starting to look a bit silly.Madame, you are one of the most arrogant persons I've ever had the pleasure of interacting with. Where do you get off being so high and mighty, figuring that nobody else besides yourself has any experience with anything? Why do you go on about the lesser human beings (those besides yourself) and how little education they have, how little real world experience they have, etc? Only you are entitled to educate people, right? You're simply amazing.
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. -Matthew 22:37-39 |
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1jester Pioneer100© Member Pilgrim Sojourner
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Sweet Pea wrote: 1jest, I don't know how you come to the conclusion that nobody thinks thisSweat Pea, thanks for commenting. Please don't think I advocate banning pit bulls (or any other species); I never said or implied that. I'm not in favor of that. However, I feel we as members of this society have a right not to be violated or harmed or killed, especially by a member of an inferior species (yes, dogs are inferior to humans). We must as a society be in favor of protecting the rights of our fellow human beings. And when a dog can get away with hurting another human, he must be destroyed. Put down. There are no ifs, ands or buts about it. Otherwise society "has gone to the dogs". This adage is apt, and I know what it means. It's too bad that in large part the owners are responsible for training (or lack of training) that causes dogs to hurt others. That's why I advocate using the fullest extent of the law to prosecute negligent owners. But even though someone is successfully prosecuted for allowing their dog to harm another person, we can never bring back that person's life, can we? Shouldn't the onus be placed on prevention of such crimes?
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. -Matthew 22:37-39 |
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UsedToRide Original500© Member ^^^That is LOVE!!^^^
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1jester wrote: Madame, you are one of the most arrogant persons I've ever had the pleasure of interacting with. Where do you get off being so high and mighty, figuring that nobody else besides yourself has any experience with anything? Why do you go on about the lesser human beings (those besides yourself) and how little education they have, how little real world experience they have, etc? Only you are entitled to educate people, right? You're simply amazing. A) I am no "madame". Someone says that and I look around for my Granny. B) If you have so much knowledge, experience, and training, prove it. Have you worked with dogs? Ever owned a pit bull? Worked in animal medicine or behavioral training? I have worked in both of those areas for many years. I also owned a pit. I have worked with the public, and many MANY pet owners and solved dozens of issues very simply. So take your assumptions about me, blow 'em out your ear, and make a point about THIS issue that means anything other than you're an argumentative biased uneducated twit. Instead of trying to slam me, discuss what this thread is about. Not whine about how I post in a topic I actually KNOW something about. You apparently know nothing more than how to point fingers and be judgemental.
Respect some, trust one, fear none ~~Bullet http://www.freeholbrook.com The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons. ~~Dostoyevsky |
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Twitchin Kitten Pioneer100© Member Don't Dream It ~ Be It
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So are you saying that you believe muzzling Pit Bulls will make them MORE dangerous ? that does seem to be indicating where you are trying to go with the story about muzzled labrador. YES! Animals learn by associating pleasure and pain. A properly put on muzzle needs to be TIGHT. Tight behind the ears. Put something constrictive around your ears and snoot for a few hours and let me know how annoying and painful it becomes. Dogs - no matter the breed - will associate humans with this constant source of pain. Thus making them angrier. Same analogy for horses, goats, raccoons, ANY ANIMAL on the planet. You see, that silly word INSTINCT comes into play here..... If they were to go about on INSTINCT, they wouldn't be able to associate the source of thier discomfort. And I need to stress again, you all are so afraid of the pit bull. There are quite a few more breeds out there that are just as [so called] dangerous. Rotties have a larger 'homicide' ratio than pits. But you all are afraid of the pit because of the hysterical press it gets. That link UTR gave out is extraordinarily interesting. Spend a day there. You got and eliminate things that fear you and guess what? There will be another and then another and anothr to take it's place, giving you all more fodder to spew based on your fear. Lady Cop asked in the first page if we maybe should licence the owners. I say yes! That is the kind of stuff I have been working with local legislators on. Like I said, these dogs are not for everyone, but they should not be banned. Most times breed specific legislation is shot down because it's unconstitutional anyway. It's not federal territory but state. Don't make me explain how our state vs fed government works, there are plenty of forums here to help you there. Oh and jester, can you explain in detail how my comments are deceitful? Pretty harsh word calling me deceitful. There is a no name calling policy in this forum, please adhere to it.
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UsedToRide Original500© Member ^^^That is LOVE!!^^^
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cynicalninja wrote: I am perhaps a tad sceptical of real life stories that are plucked out of the air to support views so easily. And now you're going to call me liar? That's low, even for you. Would you like a picture of the scar on my hand? Would you like the veterinarian I worked for to send you a letter about when that happened? I have no need to lie about a thing. If you don't believe me, that's a pretty simple way to not learn anything, since you would assume anything I may say would be a lie. As you have seen about other things, I have no stomach for liars. That's a pitiful and pathetic attempt to avoid learning something, Ninja. I thought you were better than that. I do learn something every day here.
Respect some, trust one, fear none ~~Bullet http://www.freeholbrook.com The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons. ~~Dostoyevsky |
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Twitchin Kitten Pioneer100© Member Don't Dream It ~ Be It
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1jester wrote:Sweat Pea, thanks for commenting. Please don't think I advocate banning pit bulls (or any other species); I never said or implied that. I'm not in favor of that. However, I feel we as members of this society have a right not to be violated or harmed or killed, especially by a member of an inferior species (yes, dogs are inferior to humans). We must as a society be in favor of protecting the rights of our fellow human beings. And when a dog can get away with hurting another human, he must be destroyed. Put down. There are no ifs, ands or buts about it. Otherwise society "has gone to the dogs". This adage is apt, and I know what it means. It's too bad that in large part the owners are responsible for training (or lack of training) that causes dogs to hurt others. That's why I advocate using the fullest extent of the law to prosecute negligent owners. But even though someone is successfully prosecuted for allowing their dog to harm another person, we can never bring back that person's life, can we? Shouldn't the onus be placed on prevention of such crimes? HOW arrogant! What makes you so damn sure WE are the superior beings? God put every animal on this earth for a reason, whether it be by mans hand or nature. He gave man the power to create. Every creature is precious. Now don't give me the opposable thumbs crap. We war, we destroy all that is around us, we hate. I have never seen an animal do that with the exception of Chimpanzees who do war. And if you are not advocating banning pit bulls as is the topic of this thread, what's your point then? Why are you here? WE ALL KNOW already that the HUMANS who own these dogs are to be punished and the individual dog who has lost it and attacked needs to be put down HUMANELY. So what's the point you are trying to make?
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