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| Moderated by: Twitchin Kitten | Page:   1 2 3 4 5 |
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1jester Pioneer100© Member  Pilgrim Sojourner
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Twitchin Kitten wrote: Kitten, I meant you no disrespect. Nor did I call anyone any names.So are you saying that you believe muzzling Pit Bulls will make them MORE dangerous ? that does seem to be indicating where you are trying to go with the story about muzzled labrador. About my response to your comments, I didn't say your were lying; maybe I misinterpreted what you said? If so, please clarify. Here's what you said: "Dogs just don't snap for no reason. They just don't. Someone somewhere did something to not give the dog all of the above. "Top it off, something triggers 99% of these attacks. No one ever goes to the trouble to find out what it is. Why? because it's a pit bull so it has to be the dogs fault 100%. More sensationalism for the story." First of all, I do not for a moment accept as fact that dogs "don't snap for no reason". And even if it were true, it is nevertheless completely irrelevant. The main point is that humans have the right to walk down a public sidewalk without fear of being attacked by a dog. Do you agree with this assertion? Or do you feel it's alright for a dog to go onto public property and attack a person who is minding his own business? That's the crux of this issue. Since you're a trained professional in issues concerning animals, can you honestly say that dogs never snap (attack?) for no reason? That's taking in a whole lot of territory. So what reasons are acceptable for a dog to attack a person in public? Please name just one that doesn't involve immediate defense of the owner whose life is in immediate danger caused by the person who is being attacked by the dog.
 Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. -Matthew 22:37-39 |
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1jester Pioneer100© Member Pilgrim Sojourner
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Twitchin Kitten wrote: 1jester wrote:OK, so at least I now know that you feel animals are superior to humans. Thanks for pointing that out for the record. My opinion on the subject is based on not only my feelings, but also God's word, when He created the earth and made humans superior to all other animals. I know every creature is precious, but that doesn't mean that every creature is equal to humans. We are the superior species. I'm sorry if we disagree on this point. What's my point for being on this thread, you ask? Well, to defend the poor pit bulls' right to exist, their right to not become extinct. Must I be for their banning to post on this thread? If so, I'm sorry.
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. -Matthew 22:37-39 |
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Sweet Pea Original500© Member 
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No blaming ANY victims here. Blaming irresponsible uneducated owners, certainly. CN in your story about the King Charles, you were "chilling on the sofa" and immediately a red flag runs up the pole for me. Your ex-gf did not train that dog that all humans are Alpha, and it should not have been on the sofa. There are, in fact, dogs that will REPEATEDLY let the "big fat kid with sticky hands" paw at and dribble on them. Dogs that you accidentally step on while headed to the bathroom in the middle of the night. I know, much to my dismay I've done it. My well-trained fearsome gsd with what, say 700 pounds psi bite pressure whimpered and "kissed" my foot. A dog that would say "No thank you, not today." I had that same, fearsome gsd attacked 3 times in her life. A girl that was on leash and walking quietly by my side. You can bet my foot was drawn back and kicking those dogs in the belly and the side for all it was worth. I'm not opposed to doing that if you are forced to. Forced, again, by irresponsible and/or uneducated owners with unneutered off leash dogs. But I don't blame those dogs. Blame owner handlers. Look at the case LC mentioned, the Presa Canarios in SF. I watched a hearing about those dogs on tv. Packed courtroom. I'm not sure of the exact number here but I will tell you there were many, many people who stood up to say those dogs had "nipped" them or attacked their dogs or whatever. None of those occasions was reported before the attack on Diane Whipple. And the irresponsible owner of those animals was trying to "walk" TWO hundred pound plus dogs with harnesses! NO control, plus she knew their history. Irresponsible. I'm not biased, just sensible. If this were some other subject I knew little about, I'd be open to listening to those I could deduce knew more than I. So, you have TK who has 30 plus years experience, UTR probably has similar, and I'm right around probably FIFTY years experience. I would think that could be listened to at the very least. My worst bite experience ever? As a young teen, my family's labrador attacked and mauled a little 5 year old girl. My family's labrador who for most of his life, was kept on a 12 foot chain attached to his dog house. Yeah, he got off the chain sometimes. Let's see, twice or so a year when Dad went hunting. Couple times when I hitched him to a wagon to pull feed around for the horses. Great life. When you know better, you do better, and thank goodness things aren't like they were forty years ago. Last edited on 07:05 pm by Sweet Pea |
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UsedToRide Original500© Member  ^^^That is LOVE!!^^^
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Now that I have gotten past the accusation of lying, let's take a look at this part of the message posted by Ninja.So are you saying that you believe muzzling Pit Bulls will make them MORE dangerous ? that does seem to be indicating where you are trying to go with the story about muzzled labrador. I did not say that muzzling them makes them less dangerous and you jumping to that conclusion or question proves to me that you do just jump to whatever interpretation you choose to suit your argument. What I am saying, which should have been obvious, is that a muzzled dog is not now "perfectly safe and incapable of doing damage" just because it is muzzled. dogs have good days and bad daysThat is incorrect. You are anthropomorphizing them, and a properly trained dog, no matter the breed, does not choose to ignore it's training. With the exception of Leader Dogs. But that is training, too. It's called "intelligent disobedience" and it means that if a blind person is commanding his leader dog to walk forward into the path of an oncoming car, the dog will choose to ignore the command and instead, block the prgress of it's handler.
Respect some, trust one, fear none ~~Bullet http://www.freeholbrook.com The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons. ~~Dostoyevsky |
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Twitchin Kitten Pioneer100© Member  Don't Dream It ~ Be It
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dogs have good days and bad daysThat is incorrect. You are anthropomorphizing them, and a properly trained dog, no matter the breed, does not choose to ignore it's training. With the exception of Leader Dogs. But that is training, too. It's called "intelligent disobedience" and it means that if a blind person is commanding his leader dog to walk forward into the path of an oncoming car, the dog will choose to ignore the command and instead, block the prgress of it's handler. Exactly. Apparently Ninja totally ignored my story about my BF's dog and his niece where she bit off his ear and everyone thought it was the other way around. Story is on the first reply on the first page. 1jester, Ok fine. For some reason most of your comments come off as wanting to ban these dogs. Now for the part about where you think I said animals are superior to humans. I did no such thing. I simply said how do we know it's not the case? I respect your faith in God and your strong beliefs in your religion and ask you to please leave religion out of this subject. Our views are way different on how God tells us stuff. I for one, will NOT speak for God nor will I say He told me in one way or any other. The Bible is [in my opinion] ripe for anyone' to give their own inerpretation and opinion. In all reality, we dont know what God said or thought when he created all this. For all we know everything you and I believe can actually be quite the opposite. One thing is for sure, we will all find out when we're dead.
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1jester Pioneer100© Member Pilgrim Sojourner
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Thank you Kitten. I also respect and value you! You're right about so many things.
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. -Matthew 22:37-39 |
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Lady Cop Pioneer100© Member  BAH HUMBUG
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thanks for answering me Sweet Pea. Last edited on 08:52 am by Lady Cop  |
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jrstattooedgurl Guardian1000© Member 
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1jester wrote: Thank you Kitten. I also respect and value you! You're right about so many things. yes she is!!!!  Im so glad you brought that up!And UTR also brought up some very valid points !!Ive pretty much been sitting back and reading this thread(with the exception of 1 or 2 comments)and as a animal lover and pitt owner in the past(me and the bf live in a pet restricted neighborhood therefore I have attack~parrot)and it never ceases to amaze me the lack of education or understanding so many people have.The pitbull is a very misunderstood creature and too often flagged as being "bad".Theres so many people that need to sit back and look at actual facts before they start running off at the mouth(yeah I know thats a fantasy)I wuv ya twitchy you r awesome maybe someday we'll not see so much of this but I doubt it lol nice dream anyways
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jrstattooedgurl Guardian1000© Member
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p.s. my worst bite ever?SNAKE
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cynicalninja Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member  Smiling Shinobi
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UsedToRide wrote: cynicalninja wrote:I am perhaps a tad sceptical of real life stories that are plucked out of the air to support views so easily. I wasn't calling you a liar, I have no doubt the Labrador incident did take place, please try to calm down. When I posted a comment about muzzles I thought to myself "I bet someone posts something about the dangers of muzzles !" and lo and behold you did !, it wasn't the incident you mentioned that made me raise my eyebrows, more the timing. You do not have to prove anything to me, I was in fact being sarcastic, perhaps too sarcastic, but if you are just learning the fact I am sarcastic today perhaps you haven't been paying attention ? It's one of my faults sometimes i can't help myself, you do seem to find it funny when I am sarcastic towards other members though, but if I do it to you are you going to get all defensive on me ? You don't have to get the vet you worked with to send me a letter, they are probably far too busy muzzling Pit Bulls anyway. (see ?, I can't help myself)
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UsedToRide Original500© Member ^^^That is LOVE!!^^^
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cynicalninja wrote: I wasn't calling you a liar, I have no doubt the Labrador incident did take place, please try to calm down. Perceived reality. That's what I saw, so that's what I said. Bravo. Now you're a psychic. It's one of my faults sometimes i can't help myself, you do seem to find it funny when I am sarcastic towards other members though, but if I do it to you are you going to get all defensive on me ? At least you can admit it is a fault. Again, bravo. This is another of those perceived reality deals. Your version of sarcasm sometimes comes off as you just being an asshole. Not having the psychic powers that you seem to lay claim to, I don't know for certain when you are serious and when you're being "sarcastic". When I do know, yes, I do find it mildly amusing, even when it is directed at me, but those instances are conveniently forgotten. As for the topic itself, I seriously wish some of you would go learn something about this other than what is given to you in the media. Since that comment wasn't worth even a reply other than smartass and superiority from another person in this thread, perhaps you will try to gain some real-life knowledge about these dogs.
Respect some, trust one, fear none ~~Bullet http://www.freeholbrook.com The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons. ~~Dostoyevsky |
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24HourNut Administrator  Body pillows rock!
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Reminder: take willingness to engage in personal baloney elsewhere, no-name calling, and no more second chances for those previously warned.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
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cynicalninja Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member Smiling Shinobi
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 I'm not psychic, the fact I could so easily second guess what other members replies might be to my post is an indicator or their "predictability" not my "psychic ability". I have studied extensively both the pro/con and somewhere inbetween articles, views, opinions etc about Pit Bulls. I went into this study with an open mind a while ago. After desseminating the facts and letting them swirl around my head for a while I formed MY opinion which is:- 1 - Banning the breed altogether is probably not a practical or sensible thing to do. 2 - Only experienced responsible dog owners with an appropriate licence which they would have to apply for should be allowed to keep them as pets. 3 - In your own property your Pit Bull should have the freedom a pet has as a family member. Never leave your Pit Bull alone in a room with child under the age of 10 however, the same way you wouldn't leave a child in a room alone with a bottle of sleeping pills or a bottle of drain cleaner. 4 - When out in public Pit Bulls should be muzzled and restrained on a leash at all times. 5 - Any Pit Bull (in fact any dog breed full stop) that attacks a human being should be put down. 6 - Certain breeds of dog ARE more likely to attack people than others. Pit Bulls are one of the (but by no means the only) breeds that fit into this category. There thats MY opinion having sifted through all the various facts, opinions and views that were available to me at the time. So please disagree with me by all means, but don't patronise and address me in a condescending manner that I need to "learn" and that I don't "understand" and I need to get all the "facts" before I can offer an opinion, ok ? The subject is Pit Bulls not Quantum psychics, my little brain can comprehend and take into account differing viewpoints about a bred of doggy before formulating an opinion. You'll be telling me to "wake up" and telling me I "don't understand the game" like Robo next !  Woof Woof ! Attachment: (Downloaded times) Last edited on 07:03 pm by cynicalninja |
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Twitchin Kitten Pioneer100© Member Don't Dream It ~ Be It
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OK I am exercising my rights as this forums owner and manager to lock this topic and have the last word. It's gotten a bit out of control and the name calling is the main cause to locking it. The secondary cause is that it's going nowhere but in circles now. Dare I say we made a cynicalninja see the light? maybe But I am going to comment on his stuff below in the quoted box in red. That's my last word. The subject is closed. We all have our opinions and we now need to learn to agree to disagree and either let it go or battle it out someplace else. cynicalninja wrote:
I want to add that the biggest cause of problems with dogs and people getting hurt by them are: Lack of training. People tend to refuse to learn that a dog cannot comprehend and reason the same as we do. People need to learn to think like the dog (or ANY other animal they are handling) and not vice versa. They can't understand us, but we certainly can understand them. Anthropomorphism: people thinking the dogs can reason like us and sort out complex thought processes and make decisions of how they should or shouldn't behave. Impossible. My own mother is guilty of this 'crime' a thousand times over! Improper supervision of children among pets. Children can hurt the dog and the dog CANNOT always override it's natural need to lash out. See both my stories of my BF's niece and the St Bernard. Cruelty. Animals don't forget their past experiences and will never fully overcome the bad things that happened to them. I have one such dog.
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