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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > LC's Crimes & Trials > Is it Discriminatory to ask restaurant patrons to order in English? |
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Marie5656 Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member  Just hanging out
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Philadelphia Cheesesteak Shop Owner Defends 'Order in English' Policy Saturday , December 15, 2007  PHILADELPHIA — A small sign that asked customers to order in English at a famous cheesesteak shop was never meant to be offensive, the shop's owner testified Friday at a hearing to decide whether the policy was discriminatory. Joe Vento, the owner of Geno's Steaks, defended his policy before the Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations, which filed the discrimination complaint. "This country is a melting pot, but what makes it work is the English language," Vento told the commission. "I'm not stupid. I would never put a sign out to hurt my business." Vento posted two small signs in October 2005 at his shop in a diverse South Philadelphia neighborhood, telling customers, "This is AMERICA: WHEN ORDERING PLEASE 'SPEAK ENGLISH.'" He said Friday that he posted the sign because of concerns over the debate on immigration reform and the increasing number of people from the area who could not order in English. But he said he also wanted to keep the line moving at his busy store. "The case should, without question, be dismissed," Vento attorney Shannon L. Goessling said. "There is a legitimate business purpose for this sign." Paul M. Hummer, an attorney for the commission, testified earlier that the sign is not about political speech, but about "intimidation," and that it suggested business from certain individuals was not wanted. No ruling is expected for at least two months, the three-member panel said. After extensive publicity in 2006, the commission began investigating whether Vento violated a city ordinance that prohibits discrimination in employment, public accommodation and housing on the basis of race, ethnicity or sexual orientation. In February, the commission found probable cause against Geno's Steaks for discrimination, alleging that the policy at the shop discourages customers of certain backgrounds from eating there. Friday's hearing was held at the Arch Street Meeting House, given to the Philadelphia Quakers by William Penn in 1693. The building is billed as a symbol of "tolerance, equality and peace." Vento arrived carrying a bouquet of red and white roses. He met some resistance outside the hall, with protesters carrying signs reading, "No Hate in Our Town." About 100 people were in attendance when the meeting started shortly after 1:30 p.m, but only a few dozen were left when testimony ended shortly before 8 p.m. Vento told of starting his steak shop in 1966 with just $6 and developing it into a multimillion-dollar business. Camille Charles, a sociology professor at the University of Pennsylvania, testified that Vento's signs harken back to the "Whites only" postings of the Jim Crow era. "The signs give a feeling of being unwelcome and being excluded," Charles said.
 
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation 
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What exactly about this case takes 2 months to decide?!  I really don't see what the problem is. The menu's in English, so all you have to do is order from the freakin' menu. If you understand the menu, you should be able to tell the person behind the counter what you want. Why should you need to speak Spanish, if you can understand what's on the menu already?
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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Brian wrote: What exactly about this case takes 2 months to decide?! Usually what's going on is that there are one or two well-liked items on the menu, and people just order that without looking at a menu. So illegals get a friend to read the menu once, then they order the same thing over and over again, either in broken English or in their own language. I've heard this happens a lot on the edges of the Chinatowns too -- people from deep inside the nearby Chinatown get out to the edge, and interact with locals in bad english. I don't mind when it's an older couple, who you can figure don't learn as easily any more, perhaps have memory problems from age, etc-- and they are the legally immigrated parents of a US Citizen. But when it's an obviously young enough to learn person, especially when I've seen that person around for a few years, like a bagboy at one of our grocery stores--- he never DID learn English...for something like four years, he spoke broken English..
Armed with the power of Thy name nothing can ever hurt me, and with Thy love in my heart all the world's afflictions can in no wise alarm me. |
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CARLA Original500© Member  Aloha San Diego is Paradise.!!
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I agree whats the problem?? If they want to eat the food the menu is in english, seems that is the only way to order. I guess if you want to point to the item on the menu.. 
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up worn out screaming what a ride.. |
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librtyhead Original500© Member 
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Kinda funny how the menu cannot be read but when the change comes back it better be right. Thats the first thing learned.
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sirlamre Pioneer100© Member Official Forum Troublemaker
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CARLA wrote: I guess if you want to point to the item on the menu.. Again-- what they do is say the name of the one thing they've been told about on the menu.... ... in broken English or in their own language. btw- I suspect that in Philly, his problem isn't Hispanic, though I'm sure there is a growing amount of that. It's probably Eastern Europeans-- it's that way in NY and a lot of the NorthEast -- they see all the European/Indian/Pakistani/etc people... so yeah --- they either just point to what they know is the one they've had before, or they try to order "a sandwich" in Russian or in Pakistani, or Hindu.... or in Mexican.
Armed with the power of Thy name nothing can ever hurt me, and with Thy love in my heart all the world's afflictions can in no wise alarm me. |
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UsedToRide Original500© Member  ^^^That is LOVE!!^^^
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Uh, what if the person taking the order only understands English? How can it be discriminatory if the waiter/ess doesn't know any language but English?? Are the courts who decide this going to pay for teaching the workers another language?
Respect some, trust one, fear none ~~Bullet http://www.freeholbrook.com The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons. ~~Dostoyevsky |
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Marie5656 Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member Just hanging out
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If I were in a country, to live or just to visit, I would make every effort to learn as much of the language as I could in order to function comfortably. For me, the first phrase I would probably learn is " I am new to speaking "****" please excuse any mistakes" or something like that. At least the person in the new country will hopefully give me credit for trying. And until I learned a functional amount of the language, I would make every effort to have someone with me to help me translate. But that is just me.
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Prince colin Forum-Blogger© Pioneer100© Member 
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I agree with Marie, learning the language of the country you are in does help, trust me i had to learn Filipino fast just to have a basic understanding of the country but here's the problem, if a person does speak English fairly well, but is hard to understand cause of their accent does that give people the right to refuse service to them cause they don't speak perfect English?
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Cars Original500© Member  Love Living Large
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NO! As the sign said: This is America, Speak English!!!
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Marie5656 Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member Just hanging out
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If "perfect" English is not spoken, I feel the person should be given credit for trying. We never know just how new the language is to this person. They could have just begun learning a month ago or something. An analogy here...Kim, as she has mentioned, has speech which is difficult to understand, due to her disability. Should she be denied services because her speech is not "perfect"? I know, maybe a piss-poor example. I am still having a problem with people who have lived here for YEARS and have made no effort to learn the language which is spoken. I had a co-worker from Puerto Rico who seemed proud to say that her father had been here 20 years and had never learned more than a few words of English. Her argument was that Americans should learn Spanish to accomodate them..not the other way around. So, using that argument, should we also learn Chinese, Japanese, French and every other language spoken here?
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UsedToRide Original500© Member ^^^That is LOVE!!^^^
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Her argument was that Americans should learn Spanish to accomodate them..not the other way around. I would have explained quickly, and not kindly, just what I thought of that idea. And she wouldn't be able to reply since her jaw would be wired shut.
Respect some, trust one, fear none ~~Bullet http://www.freeholbrook.com The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons. ~~Dostoyevsky |
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Marie5656 Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member Just hanging out
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UsedToRide wrote: Her argument was that Americans should learn Spanish to accomodate them..not the other way around. Trust me, it took a bit for me to be polite. we were at work and all. Geesh. sad thing is there are alot out there who feel that way.
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Prince colin Forum-Blogger© Pioneer100© Member
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Well for me this issue has a personal meaning to me, see my wife's English is accented with Filipino does that mean she should be hated, disrespected and loathed cause it's not PERFECT English? Or should she be respected as a person, understood and given credit for trying her best See what happens is that with her Filipino accent sometimes creeps into her English which make it hard to understand and many have a hard time understanding her ,which makes her sad and unhappy, it's very hard for me not to get upset and say"try to listen first you moron" so the question is should my wife be refused service by any biz cause her English isn't PERFECT?
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Marie5656 Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member Just hanging out
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Just my point, colin. She knows English, and she uses it. It is not as if she pretends not to know the language. My aunt was a war bride. She spoke French. came here when she was 16. She learned by listening to others speak, asking folks who knew her language to speak to her in English so she would learn. And she read alot. She is in her 60's now..and still loves to read. Last edited on 09:30 pm by Marie5656
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24HourForums.com > The Top 10 Supported Forums > LC's Crimes & Trials > Is it Discriminatory to ask restaurant patrons to order in English? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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