|
||||||
 |
Recent Posts | Search by username | |
Contact Us | |
Login | |
Register |
 |
 |
|||||
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
|
24HourForums.com > Supported Forums > Brian's Science & Nature Shack > Evolution (used to be "Reasons the Jews do not accept the Messiah") |
| Moderated by: Brian | Page:   ... 7 8 9 10 11 12 |
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Author | Post | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
pmh1nic Pioneer100© Member 
|
  |
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
"Based on the nature of mutations, mutation rates, and the process of natural selection we get a wide variety of microevolutions from mild to significant. That same process can be multiplied until a subset of that species can no longer breed with the original pack on the other side of the river." I'm not sure how you define milded (variations in beak length of the Galapagos finch) but as far as significant change (from single cell simple life forms to man) it's highly improbable. Again, I think the error is in making the assumption that macroevolution is in fact what has occurred because microevolution change is observed. There is a vast difference in the number and complexity of changes in the genetic code required of the two processes. That difference is something Darwin had very little conception of and the more we learn about the differences in range and complexity the more unlikely it is that the microevolutionary process extended over a longer period of time will product macroevolutionary change.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
24HourNut Administrator  Body pillows rock!
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
pmh1nic wrote: I'm not sure how you define milded (variations in beak length of the Galapagos finch) but as far as significant change (from single cell simple life forms to man) it's highly improbable. There are variations within species, that you describe as microevolution, that took many many many many many mutations and incremental steps to get to. Differences in Galapagos birds that range from digestive and beak characteristics, to speed, coloring, and wing structure. My point is, as my last few posts get into, that if you can attribute the variations we see within species to microevolution, then you can do the same with macro since it is just more changes. Check out my last few posts and the example I gave. Why could there not be some more microevolution on that prehistoric semi-reptilian bird to become more able in flight?
 The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
pmh1nic wrote: Again, I think the error is in making the assumption that macroevolution is in fact what has occurred because microevolution change is observed. There is a vast difference in the number and complexity of changes in the genetic code required of the two processes. It's not black and white. You already admit to countless mutuations and natural selection via microevolution. There is nothing stopping that from multiplying over more time. Why black and white - micro or macro? Aren't they inherently blurred over time since there is no mechanism stopping more microevolutionary action from making that variation so different, after being isolated for millions of years, that it can't even breed with the original pack anymore and looks and performs like a different species? Watch. Pmh, how far can a variation of a species go before it stops being due to microevolution? If you show me an example of how extreme or how different a variant off the main pack can be, I will show you how macrovolution is just another few more strings of the microevolution that caused differences to begin with. Why say it has to stop at the line your draw? Where is the evidence that the body structure, biochemistry, physical and mental attributes we know to change within a species due to microevolution has a stopping point that disallows multiplying of the effect? If a thousand mutations over 50,000 years caused some cases of obviously significant variations with a lot of differences from another variation, why can't 100,000 over 50 million make that reptilian flightless bird have more low-height flight? You never can explain this magical cut off. I think it is due to no cut off - it is gradual and blurred.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation 
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
pmh1nic wrote: "Based on the nature of mutations, mutation rates, and the process of natural selection we get a wide variety of microevolutions from mild to significant. That same process can be multiplied until a subset of that species can no longer breed with the original pack on the other side of the river." The problem is you're looking at morphological changes and equating those with genetic changes. There's no direct proportionality, though, for two reasons: 1) In later animals, a small genetic change can often lead to a big morphological change. (Think of something like microcephalus, cleft pallete, or any number of other birth defects in humans.) 2) In earlier organisms, the genome is smaller, so the potential change from a genetic mutation is much greater.
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Saint Forum-Blogger© Pioneer100© Member  Polymath
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
We are remembering that the Earth is over four BILLION years old, right? plenty of time for small "micro-evolutionary" changes to add up to amazing things. For people who don't believe in evolution, they should break their tailbones. When someone says, "I can't believe we came from apes." I say, 'We didn't. We came from some tiny mammilian shrew-type animal. But if you want to go further back, we used to live in the ocean. That's why your tears are salty." Last edited on 05:13 pm by Saint A^2 + B^2 = C^2 |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
24HourNut Administrator Body pillows rock!
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Heh, Saint.
The best human beings start good new topics and vote on the better posts. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member  Jesus...above every other name
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Saint wrote: We are remembering that the Earth is over four BILLION years old, right? plenty of time for small "micro-evolutionary" changes to add up to amazing things. Bologny.  Animals were made on a different day/week/year/billion years/whatever. Birds,animals,...are made separate from humans. There may be links, similarities but completely uniquely different from animals.
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation
|
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
JustifiedByFaith wrote: Saint wrote:We are remembering that the Earth is over four BILLION years old, right? plenty of time for small "micro-evolutionary" changes to add up to amazing things. To use a technical term: Bullchips.  If you look at the genetics, geological evidence, and structural evidence of animals both living and long-extinct, the inter-relatedness of humans to other animals could not be more glaring. Man's sole distinction is that man is the only thinking animal we know of (if you define thinking as higher cognitive processes like abstract thought).
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
24HourForums.com > Supported Forums > Brian's Science & Nature Shack > Evolution (used to be "Reasons the Jews do not accept the Messiah") | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Site Supporters | |||
|---|---|---|---|
| Posts Of The Day | Mock Forums | WowClassic | |
Themes and most mods done in collaboration with: WowClassic - powerful forum software with the best support service.
We are partners with Forum Owner Services
Powered by - Copyright © 2003-2006 Aycan Gulez
We are partners with Forum Owner Services
Powered by - Copyright © 2003-2006 Aycan Gulez