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24HourNut
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Posted: 08:56 pm

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LINK IS HERE.

Celebrated scientist attacked for race comments: "All our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really"

By Cahal Milmo

Published: 17 October 2007

One of the world's most eminent scientists was embroiled in an extraordinary row last night after he claimed that black people were less intelligent than white people and the idea that "equal powers of reason" were shared across racial groups was a delusion.

James Watson, a Nobel Prize winner for his part in the unravelling of DNA who now runs one of America's leading scientific research institutions, drew widespread condemnation for comments he made ahead of his arrival in Britain today for a speaking tour at venues including the Science Museum in London.

The 79-year-old geneticist reopened the explosive debate about race and science in a newspaper interview in which he said Western policies towards African countries were wrongly based on an assumption that black people were as clever as their white counterparts when "testing" suggested the contrary. He claimed genes responsible for creating differences in human intelligence could be found within a decade.

The newly formed Equality and Human Rights Commission, successor to the Commission for Racial Equality, said it was studying Dr Watson's remarks " in full". Dr Watson told The Sunday Times that he was "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours � whereas all the testing says not really". He said there was a natural desire that all human beings should be equal but "people who have to deal with black employees find this not true".

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Brian
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Posted: 09:02 pm

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This appears to be a textbook example of someone talking outside of his/her area of expertise. A geneticist is not necessarily qualified to talk about intelligence or intelligence testing.

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Posted: 10:49 pm

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I disagree. It's well-known that genetics can cause retardation, so why couldn't it produce the opposite? Surely Einstein and Stephen Hawking had something going for them other than really good college professors.

It's similar to some of the problems teachers have with "No Child Left Behind." That law assumes that with enough work, all kids can become rocket scientists. That is beginning to look impossible since not only are some school and teachers not equal, but some kids aren't either.

In fact, Europe already operates under this theory separating students into two training tracks, one for vocational jobs, one for technical jobs.

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Posted: 11:25 pm

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I would be willing to first look at the reseach then respond. I will not offer a simple jellyfish PC response to this thread.

Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you."

Matthew 24:4

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Posted: 11:41 pm

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Saint wrote: I disagree. It's well-known that genetics can cause retardation, so why couldn't it produce the opposite? Surely Einstein and Stephen Hawking had something going for them other than really good college professors.

It's similar to some of the problems teachers have with "No Child Left Behind." That law assumes that with enough work, all kids can become rocket scientists. That is beginning to look impossible since not only are some school and teachers not equal, but some kids aren't either.

In fact, Europe already operates under this theory separating students into two training tracks, one for vocational jobs, one for technical jobs.

I'm certainly not saying that all people are of equal intelligence. Clearly, they're not. What I'm saying is that Dr. Watson isn't an expert on what he's offering an opinion on. Genetics may or may not play a part in intelligence. As a matter of fact, I would say it probably does. But to settle the question, there's a lot you have to factor in, not the least of which is, how are you testing intelligence?

Llet's assume for the moment that it's true that blacks are less intelligent than whites. Why would you necessarily attribute that to genetics? That seems particularly wrong-headed in the case of the U.S. where there's a fair amount of people of mixed race.

I'm not approaching this from a PC standpoint. If it turns out that there's a genetic basis for saying blacks are less intelligent (on average) than whites, then so be it. But given the fact that no gene related to intelligence has even been found yet, it seems a tad premature to say that blacks are genetically less intelligent than whites. Intelligence is a complex, somewhat subjective, trait. It's not like hair color.

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Posted: 11:54 pm

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This reminds me of someone who commented to me after I noticed the very un-kept and poor living conditions of the Native American community in our town. I commented that it would be nice if the Native Americans would get together and have more pride and community effort in cleaning up their neighborhood. I said this in a kind, non-derogative, unbiased way yet she said, "Thats rude, they are no worse than the white community." But the reality is a visual observation would show entirely different living conditions and efforts in taking care of personal property and possessions. This to me is PC when reality is ignored and changes for the better are not made in the name of not offending someone or walking around with a blind fold on.

Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you."

Matthew 24:4

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Posted: 05:46 am

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JustifiedByFaith wrote: This reminds me of someone who commented to me after I noticed the very un-kept and poor living conditions of the Native American community in our town. I commented that it would be nice if the Native Americans would get together and have more pride and community effort in cleaning up their neighborhood. I said this in a kind, non-derogative, unbiased way yet she said, "Thats rude, they are no worse than the white community." But the reality is a visual observation would show entirely different living conditions and efforts in taking care of personal property and possessions. This to me is PC when reality is ignored and changes for the better are not made in the name of not offending someone or walking around with a blind fold on.
The problem is that assessing intelligence isn't as simple as a visual examination. There's not even agreement in the scientific community about how intelligence should be measured.

And intelligence is probably not just one thing. To give you an example: There's such a thing as spatial intelligence. That's an area that hits one of my cognitive deficits, so I score very poorly on that test. But verbal intelligence is one of my strong areas, so I score well.

Measuring intelligence isn't necessarily as simple as administering a Stanford-Binet test, and even if it was, there's a lot of evidence that intelligence isn't only genetic. Twins separated early in childhood who are tested later don't score the same on intelligence tests.

Watson's obviously a smart guy, and a master of his field, but intelligence is not his field, so what he says should be taken with a pound or so of salt.

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Posted: 02:19 pm

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Brian wrote: JustifiedByFaith wrote: This reminds me of someone who commented to me after I noticed the very un-kept and poor living conditions of the Native American community in our town. I commented that it would be nice if the Native Americans would get together and have more pride and community effort in cleaning up their neighborhood. I said this in a kind, non-derogative, unbiased way yet she said, "Thats rude, they are no worse than the white community." But the reality is a visual observation would show entirely different living conditions and efforts in taking care of personal property and possessions. This to me is PC when reality is ignored and changes for the better are not made in the name of not offending someone or walking around with a blind fold on.
The problem is that assessing intelligence isn't as simple as a visual examination. There's not even agreement in the scientific community about how intelligence should be measured.

And intelligence is probably not just one thing. To give you an example: There's such a thing as spatial intelligence. That's an area that hits one of my cognitive deficits, so I score very poorly on that test. But verbal intelligence is one of my strong areas, so I score well.

Measuring intelligence isn't necessarily as simple as administering a Stanford-Binet test, and even if it was, there's a lot of evidence that intelligence isn't only genetic. Twins separated early in childhood who are tested later don't score the same on intelligence tests.

Watson's obviously a smart guy, and a master of his field, but intelligence is not his field, so what he says should be taken with a pound or so of salt.

True, I'm refering to the first public responses to Mr. Watson's research.

Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you."

Matthew 24:4

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Posted: 03:03 pm

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Seems to me, just my observation, he has lost his way of thinking.

Did I read right in seeing he is 79? Not that is bad, but I, personally will never accepts that broad of a comment.

From anyone........... because it is too narrow

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Posted: 03:00 am

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Nobel-winning biologist apologizes for remarks about blacks

Story Highlights
Jim Watson told a newspaper he was "gloomy about the prospect of Africa"
Watson: I can't understand how I could have said what I'm quoted as having said
Watson won the Nobel prize in 1962
Scientist has made controversial remarks in the past

LONDON, England (CNN) -- Nobel laureate biologist Jim Watson apologized "unreservedly" Thursday for stating that black people were not as intelligent as whites, saying he was "mortified" by the comments attributed to him.

Jim Watson won the 1962 Nobel Prize for his part in discovering the structure of DNA.

"I cannot understand how I could have said what I am quoted as having said," Watson said during an appearance at the Royal Society in London.

"I can certainly understand why people, reading those words, have reacted in the ways that they have."

"To all those who have drawn the inference from my words that Africa, as a continent, is somehow genetically inferior, I can only apologize unreservedly. That is not what I meant. More importantly from my point of view, there is no scientific basis for such a belief," he said.

Watson, 79, an American who won the 1962 Nobel prize for his role in the discovery of the double-helix structure of DNA, told the Sunday Times he was "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours, whereas all the testing says not really."

Watson also asserted there was no reason to believe different races separated by geography should have evolved identically, and he said that while he hoped everyone was equal, "people who have to deal with black employees find this is not true.

His comments were met with an avalanche of criticism, and London's Science Museum canceled Watson's planned Friday appearance, saying his remarks had "gone beyond the point of acceptable debate."

The British government's skills minister, David Lammy, who is black, called the comments "deeply offensive."

"It is a shame that a man with a record of scientific distinction should see his work overshadowed by his own irrational prejudices," Lammy said.

Watson's remarks to the Sunday Times were the latest in a number of controversial comments from the eminent biologist.

In 1997, Britain's Sunday Telegraph quoted Watson as saying that if a gene for homosexuality were isolated, women who find that their unborn child has the gene should be allowed to have an abortion.

During a lecture tour in 2000, he suggested there might be links between a person's weight and their level of ambition and between skin color and sexual prowess.

"That's why you have Latin lovers," he said, according to The Associated Press, which cited people who attended the lecture. "You've never heard of an English lover. Only an English patient."

And in a British TV documentary that aired in 2003, Watson suggested stupidity was a genetic disease that should be treated.

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Posted: 03:53 am

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Lady Cop wrote: Nobel-winning biologist apologizes for remarks about blacks

Story Highlights
Jim Watson told a newspaper he was "gloomy about the prospect of Africa"
Watson: I can't understand how I could have said what I'm quoted as having said
Watson won the Nobel prize in 1962
Scientist has made controversial remarks in the past

LONDON, England (CNN) -- Nobel laureate biologist Jim Watson apologized "unreservedly" Thursday for stating that black people were not as intelligent as whites, saying he was "mortified" by the comments attributed to him.

Jim Watson won the 1962 Nobel Prize for his part in discovering the structure of DNA.

"I cannot understand how I could have said what I am quoted as having said," Watson said during an appearance at the Royal Society in London.

"I can certainly understand why people, reading those words, have reacted in the ways that they have."

"To all those who have drawn the inference from my words that Africa, as a continent, is somehow genetically inferior, I can only apologize unreservedly. That is not what I meant. More importantly from my point of view, there is no scientific basis for such a belief," he said.

Watson, 79, an American who won the 1962 Nobel prize for his role in the discovery of the double-helix structure of DNA, told the Sunday Times he was "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours, whereas all the testing says not really."

Watson also asserted there was no reason to believe different races separated by geography should have evolved identically, and he said that while he hoped everyone was equal, "people who have to deal with black employees find this is not true.

His comments were met with an avalanche of criticism, and London's Science Museum canceled Watson's planned Friday appearance, saying his remarks had "gone beyond the point of acceptable debate."

The British government's skills minister, David Lammy, who is black, called the comments "deeply offensive."

"It is a shame that a man with a record of scientific distinction should see his work overshadowed by his own irrational prejudices," Lammy said.

Watson's remarks to the Sunday Times were the latest in a number of controversial comments from the eminent biologist.

In 1997, Britain's Sunday Telegraph quoted Watson as saying that if a gene for homosexuality were isolated, women who find that their unborn child has the gene should be allowed to have an abortion.

During a lecture tour in 2000, he suggested there might be links between a person's weight and their level of ambition and between skin color and sexual prowess.

"That's why you have Latin lovers," he said, according to The Associated Press, which cited people who attended the lecture. "You've never heard of an English lover. Only an English patient."

And in a British TV documentary that aired in 2003, Watson suggested stupidity was a genetic disease that should be treated.

Hmmm... He must have had a recent visit from Rainbow Push. ::sly::

Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you."

Matthew 24:4


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Posted: 03:20 am

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This was also reported in the Australian press and got plenty of reactions.

There seems to be a bit of confusion now about what the Nobel prize winning scientist actually said. But it appears he did say something - and he's an eminent scientist.

I'd very much like to hear a scientist of similar stature refuting or supporting this theory.

It was once asserted commonly that women were intellectually inferior to men. A lot of work has since been done on male and female brains, and the assertion has been supported. In some areas. In other areas female brains appear to be superior.

Anyway, setting aside emotional reactions - does having white skin mean you're more intelligent than someone with black skin? Or just if your black skin happens to originate in Africa? What about Asian skin? I've heard arguments that Chinese people are more intelligent than Europeans?

Again, forgetting prejudice and motherhood statements and taking into account the range between individuals - what do the expert neuroscientists and geneticists say?

Current time is 08:21 pm

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