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| Moderated by: Brian | Page:   1 2 |
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cynicalninja Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member  Smiling Shinobi
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UsedToRide wrote: This topic is going in Brian's forum (as opposed to LC's) because what I have just watched is more about science than law enforcement. In an ideal world of course a law enforcement officer would have your medical records to hand when deciding whether or not to taser you, but this just isn't practical in reality. The taser is a far from perfect means of immobilising someone but it has to be preferable to a sidearm. I think the element of suprise is essential in taser effectiveness, if your body isn't expecting the shock then the shock combined with the electric shock is what takes you down. I suppose if you have a heart condition or other medical complaint that a taser could target as a weakness then you should probably avoid getting tasered.
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UsedToRide Original500© Member  Lovin' the Life
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Brian wrote: From what I can tell, the taser didn't hit him head on. The taser got him in the left arm, or maybe on his left side under his armpit. I watched it several times in slow-motion, and the first thing I noticed is that the laser dot quickly goes down and to the left (his left) when the shot is fired. If you compare that to the shot they showed of the officer going down, you can see that the officer got shot in the neck. That's gotta be a lot worse, I'd think. I will have to watch it again when it airs. I believe you said you would Tivo it? Does that mean you can rewind and replay it on a whim? (I know squat about Tivo.) And I'd think you're right; if the cop was hit in the neck and the Seal was hit lower, the cops experience probably was worse. Although I don't know how you can say "My 50,000 volts hurt worse than yours did".  But I will watch it again, looking for what you're talking about here. Brian wrote: My takeaway from this (and again, this is only my opinion, of course) is that the taser is more effective than the show is making it out to be, although it's obviously not fool-proof, based on what we've seen. (Any device can fail to do its job if you don't use it well.) It seems like lately the taser is the "controversy of the moment" and it will be just like guns. You won't hear about all the times it is effective, only when it does more damage than was intended. There is no device made - from self-defense to washing your dishes - that won't have something go wrong with it. LC, did you stay up and watch it? Last edited on 06-11-2008 12:23 am by UsedToRide  Respect some, trust one, fear none ~~Bullet A hundred criminals may be set free, but one innocent man should not go to prison, for that will make the entire system criminal ~Chief Justice T.L.Venkatraman |
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Lady Cop Pioneer100© Member  ~~sea hag~~:)
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no, i didn't see it last night, i am so whipped! but i did note the repeat dates you kindly looked up for me! 
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UsedToRide Original500© Member Lovin' the Life
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Hiya Brian, I just got done watching it again. Paying very close attention, it looks to me as though the strikes were shown on his upper left chest. It also was pretty obvious that he moved after the taser hooks embedded into him. He dropped instantly, for sure, but he was still able to get that message from his brain to his arm to remove the hooks, and ending the voltage passing into his system, then bouncing right back to his feet. Another thing I liked about the program was at the very end where the narrator says that the one weapon we all have - as I have said myself several times - is the human brain. What I didn't like about the show was the failure to remind that a person's voice is a weapon, too. If the mission of the program is to show your "average Joe" how to defend themselves, they missed that one. I loved the move by the ex-bouncer hitting the drunk low and grabbing his attacker behind the knees. I've seen that move more times than I can count. I don't know how the Seal did it, but after watching it closely a 2nd time, I still think he moved his arm after he was struck. It's on once again tomorrow at 5, and yeah, I'm going to watch it a 3rd time! You just can't know too many defense moves.
Respect some, trust one, fear none ~~Bullet A hundred criminals may be set free, but one innocent man should not go to prison, for that will make the entire system criminal ~Chief Justice T.L.Venkatraman |
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation 
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UsedToRide wrote: Hiya Brian, Hi, UTR. Because of the angle that the camera was at (shooting from the side, rather than straight-on, as I recall), and because the leads themselves (the things that stuck into the guy) were thin, it was hard for me to see exactly where he was hit. His upper left chest definitely reacted to the hit (you can see his chest flex when he gets nailed), but I wouldn't swear categorically that he was hit in the chest. It really looked to me like the side of his chest, rather than head-on. (Keep in mind, though, that I was freeze-framing a standard definition digital broadcast (that always has a certain degree of pixelation).) I do think that the taser hooks hit him first, and then he moved his arm, but the way he was hit (especially in comparison to the way the officer was hit in the split-screen video) was suspicious to me. I think it's also my personal bias talking. I just don't buy that "mind over matter" stuff. There are certain physical laws involved in life. It's as hard for me to believe in being invulnerable to a properly used taser as it is to believe in a properly used handgun. (If somebody shoots you in the head, you might survive, but you sure as hell ain't gonna "walk it off".) UsedToRide wrote: What I didn't like about the show was the failure to remind that a person's voice is a weapon, too. If the mission of the program is to show your "average Joe" how to defend themselves, they missed that one. Absolutely! The biggest thing anyone can do when they're being attacked is scream like hell. I think they didn't emphasize this on the show because it's not as dramatic and they couldn't spend 5 minutes disecting it like they could the physical moves.
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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UsedToRide Original500© Member Lovin' the Life
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Because of the angle that the camera was at (shooting from the side, rather than straight-on, as I recall), and because the leads themselves (the things that stuck into the guy) were thin, it was hard for me to see exactly where he was hit. The hooks and the cords attached are very difficult to see. What I saw again today was the computer-enhanced shot(s) that showed the approach of the hooks to his body which was shown as a body without skin. But as it was computer-enhanced, they could have manipulated the film to show anything they chose to show.
Oh I do. I totally do. What I have learned about the damage done to my body after the wreck, there is no logical reason that I am alive today. I firmly and wholeheartedly believe that my brain refused to let me die because (as corny as this may sound to some) it would have killed Bullet had I died. The stack of medical records for my 6 1/2 weeks in 3 hospitals is taller than I am. For 3 days they didn't know if I would live. I am 100% convinced that my brain wouldn't let me leave Bullet.
Respect some, trust one, fear none ~~Bullet A hundred criminals may be set free, but one innocent man should not go to prison, for that will make the entire system criminal ~Chief Justice T.L.Venkatraman |
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation
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UsedToRide wrote: Because of the angle that the camera was at (shooting from the side, rather than straight-on, as I recall), and because the leads themselves (the things that stuck into the guy) were thin, it was hard for me to see exactly where he was hit. That's what I was thinking, too: You can't really trust the computer animation, because it, at best, represents an idealized version of what happened, not the event as it actually took place. UsedToRide wrote:
I understand what you're saying, and I think there's something to be said for the human will to live. I'm talking about something a little bit different, though. There are situations when the doctor might give you 50/50 odds of living, or even 20/80 odds of living, and you pull through in part because you just decide you want to. Doctors have thoroughly documented the idea that someone who doesn't want to live anymore won't, regardless of their actual physical condition. What I'm talking about is a little bit different. If someone puts a loaded .45 to your temple, and pulls the trigger, unless it misfires, you're going to be instantly whisked from this mortal coil. You can't will yourself to survive getting your brains externalized. In my mind, the same thing applies here: However much you might want to override the electricity going through your body (and ultimately, your brain), it is what it is. I don't know what trickery was used in the video, but the basic laws of physics seem to dictate that either the target didn't get a full dose, or the dose wasn't administered until after he was able to move his arm. (I did notice that the sizzling sound didn't start until after his arm was already moving.) I'm not sure which one it was, but something had to be up with that video. I'm almost certain of it.
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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