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| Moderated by: Brian | Page: 1 2   |
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UsedToRide Original500© Member  ^^^That is LOVE!!^^^
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This topic is going in Brian's forum (as opposed to LC's) because what I have just watched is more about science than law enforcement. On (yeah, here it comes again,) National Geographic channel, they were showing a program about self defense for the average person. Tasers came into play as a controversial weapon that might not be as great as some cops think it is. There were several professionals involved in testing defenses and how to overcome attackers. There was an ex-bouncer/martial artist, (he was built like a brick shithouse) a Navy Seal, a 5th degree blackbelt in a discipline I have never heard of and a stunt man. When the taser test came along, they used it on the Navy Seal. Now granted, this man is trained to take some seriously brutal punishment to his body, he is a master at "mind over matter" and he knew the taser strike was coming. Generally, a person who is getting a taser slammed into them is none of those things. The Seal nodded when he was ready, got struck, and dropped to the ground. However; other than dropping an unruly idiot, the taser is also supposed to disable the idiot for several seconds, at least. The Seal dropped and as he was falling he used his left arm to pull the cords delivering the 50,000 volts out of his chest. He hit the floor and bounced instantly back to his feet. Again; granted, this is not a normal situation with a normal idiot. But you have to wonder if being prepared for the strike and using sheer will to make your body obey commands your mind is sending it could work for anyone. The voltage is supposed to interrupt the messages your brain tries to send your body into motion, but in the case of the Seal, he willed his body to do what he wanted. And on top of that, what would happen to a person who has metal in their body? I don't ever plan on getting hit with a taser, but I have titanium in my head. Non-ferrous, sure, but could the taser affect me differently because of that metal? What about someone with a steel plate in their head or some other metal in their bod? What about a person with a pacemaker, since the taser sends the heart rate off the scales? Just thought it was a cool program and it showed many other means of self-defense that any person can use if they are attacked. Cool stuff!
 Respect some, trust one, fear none ~~Bullet A hundred criminals may be set free, but one innocent man should not go to prison, for that will make the entire system criminal ~Chief Justice T.L.Venkatraman |
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Lady Cop Pioneer100© Member  TRICK OR TREAT!
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i hope to catch that when it repeats.
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librtyhead Original500© Member 
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My only contribution to this would be that I became immune to pepper spray years ago, I really do not know what or how it would affect me after all these years. But this taser thing I have never tried ,I have never been whacked by high amps.(at least not intentionaly) From what I see there are 2 dif ways to get Tazzed one is with a wire , the other is with close contact. I tend to have little faith in either as if clothing was involved there may be a few variables. I have seen people in a contained situation getting abused by both devices but have never seen someone with a winter jacket getting whacked. And I would be concerned about an innocent whacking themselves in the process............why would you want to use these?
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librtyhead Original500© Member
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I just re-read your original post and see you are looking for answers that I do not have. Sorry.
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation 
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Hi, UTR. First of all, keep in mind that these are all WAGs, since I've neither used a taser, nor been hit by one... I think a taser is like anything else: It's just not going to be effective against everyone the same way, all the time. Having said that, your reaction to electricity is involuntary. It's not like pepper spray or something where it's just painful. The electricity does something to your nervous system -- however momentary. If the guy pulled the thing out while he was falling, my guess is that he set himself in motion either as or before he was hit, so that his muscles had time to react before the current incapacitated him. A taser (again, I think) is like any other form of electricity: The only thing you can control is how long it takes you to recover once the current isn't being applied. You can't do anything about the reaction your body has when you're actually being zapped. It is what it is. Having said all that: I've got a magnetic shunt in my head, and I'm thinking that if I was to get hit by that thing, It would probably do fairly unpleasant things to my brain.  I also imagine that if you've got a pacemaker, it would send your heart into arrhythmia.
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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UsedToRide Original500© Member ^^^That is LOVE!!^^^
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The title of the program was Fighting Back. I just looked through the next 3 days of Nat Geo stuff and don't see it coming up again, but they almost always repeat programs. They even had this $150,000 dummy that can closely simulate what would happen to a person when they are struck. One of the martial artists showed a blow to the trachea using both hands that he called a "no other option" move. If it's him or you, that is the only time to use this blow. On the dummy, the blow registered at 62# and it crushed the trachea of the dummy. If it hadn't broken its neck, it would have asphyxiated the person receiving the blow. You'd have loved this show, LC. If I see it coming on again, I will let you know.
Respect some, trust one, fear none ~~Bullet A hundred criminals may be set free, but one innocent man should not go to prison, for that will make the entire system criminal ~Chief Justice T.L.Venkatraman |
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Lady Cop Pioneer100© Member TRICK OR TREAT!
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thanks! i'd be appreciative! note: not to hijack, but i'm immune to police-strength pepper spray also...we had to be sprayed in academy and it didn't touch me, three full sprays in the eyes. you can never rely on it with some people.
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UsedToRide Original500© Member ^^^That is LOVE!!^^^
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Damn....three replies while I was responding to LC's post. Sorry guys!If the guy pulled the thing out while he was falling, my guess is that he set himself in motion either as or before he was hit, They showed the motion several times in slow motion, Brian, from several different angles. The man was absolutely falling when he willed his arm to move and hit the cords attached to the taser hooks. Of course, it's television and they can tweak things any way they like. You see him get hit, all his muscles tense, he begins to fall backward, and then his arm comes down. I will absolutely update here if I see it coming on again, so you guys can see what I saw.
Respect some, trust one, fear none ~~Bullet A hundred criminals may be set free, but one innocent man should not go to prison, for that will make the entire system criminal ~Chief Justice T.L.Venkatraman |
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UsedToRide Original500© Member ^^^That is LOVE!!^^^
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Lady Cop wrote: note: not to hijack, but i'm immune to police-strength pepper spray also...we had to be sprayed in academy and it didn't touch me, three full sprays in the eyes. you can never rely on it with some people. They also showed the use of mace and your "garden variety" pepper spray. Some people it stopped, some it didn't. A couple of times they showed police dash cam footage of a deranged doper getting hit with the spray and it looked like they were trying to stop a tank with a fly swatter.
Respect some, trust one, fear none ~~Bullet A hundred criminals may be set free, but one innocent man should not go to prison, for that will make the entire system criminal ~Chief Justice T.L.Venkatraman |
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation
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UsedToRide wrote: Damn....three replies while I was responding to LC's post. Sorry guys! Hi, UTR. Just so I understand: The guy was falling, and then he moved his arm, or they showed him falling as his arm was moving? I'm trying to understand the sequence, because it's hard to believe that the electricity would allow him to move his arm that way if it was flowing while he moved it. That's not to say it didn't happen that way, of course, but I'm completely flabbergasted if it did. Obeying the laws of electricity isn't optional.  The show is on again at midnight EST. I'm Tivo'ing it so I can see that sequence! 
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation
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UsedToRide wrote: Lady Cop wrote:note: not to hijack, but i'm immune to police-strength pepper spray also...we had to be sprayed in academy and it didn't touch me, three full sprays in the eyes. you can never rely on it with some people. Pepper spray is the kind of thing I'd expect people to become immune to. Pepper spray involves pain, primarily, and there's a reason that the expression for intoxication is "feelin' no pain"! 
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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Lady Cop Pioneer100© Member TRICK OR TREAT!
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i guess i have to try to make it to midnight! 
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UsedToRide Original500© Member ^^^That is LOVE!!^^^
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Brian, I watched all the slow-motion sequences they played and it looked - to me - as though he got hit, began to fall, then moved his arm. But remember; this man is a Navy Seal, trained to ignore pain. I do understand what you're saying about obeying the laws of electricity. It is also being aired again on the 15th at 5 pm and the 16th at 5 pm. LC, watch for it! I poked around the Nat Geo site a bit more and found those times.
Respect some, trust one, fear none ~~Bullet A hundred criminals may be set free, but one innocent man should not go to prison, for that will make the entire system criminal ~Chief Justice T.L.Venkatraman |
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muddawber Guardian1000© Member 
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First of all, keep in mind that these are all WAGs, WAG...Now there's one I haven't heard in a while. 
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation
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UsedToRide wrote: Brian, I watched all the slow-motion sequences they played and it looked - to me - as though he got hit, began to fall, then moved his arm. But remember; this man is a Navy Seal, trained to ignore pain. I do understand what you're saying about obeying the laws of electricity. Hi, UTR. I just got finished watching the show. Here's what I think of that shot: From what I can tell, the taser didn't hit him head on. The taser got him in the left arm, or maybe on his left side under his armpit. I watched it several times in slow-motion, and the first thing I noticed is that the laser dot quickly goes down and to the left (his left) when the shot is fired. If you compare that to the shot they showed of the officer going down, you can see that the officer got shot in the neck. That's gotta be a lot worse, I'd think. My takeaway from this (and again, this is only my opinion, of course) is that the taser is more effective than the show is making it out to be, although it's obviously not fool-proof, based on what we've seen. (Any device can fail to do its job if you don't use it well.)
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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