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24HourForums.com > Supported Forums > Brian's Science & Nature Shack > Spanish Parliament Votes to Give Apes Some Human Rights

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Brian
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 Posted: 01:11 pm

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Hi, Everyone.

I found this linked through Drudge.

Honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about it.  I guess it depends on what rights they end up getting.  Not having them perform in circuses is reasonable (although I don't recall ever seeing a great ape in a circus...). 

What do you think about this?




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 Posted: 01:13 pm

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i read that this morning also Brian. certainly nobody will object to animals being protected from torture. but this may well inspire some theological debate.





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 Posted: 01:53 pm

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Lady Cop wrote: i read that this morning also Brian. certainly nobody will object to animals being protected from torture. but this may well inspire some theological debate.
COUNT ON IT.............. ::coffee::




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 Posted: 02:21 pm

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Lady Cop wrote: i read that this morning also Brian. certainly nobody will object to animals being protected from torture. but this may well inspire some theological debate.
Maybe, but if it did inspire theological debate, I think that would be rather pointless.  I don't see anyone suggesting that apes have souls, or that they can be saved...




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 Posted: 02:23 pm

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i was thinking in terms of it being characterized as 'human rights'.





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 Posted: 02:48 pm

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Well apes aren't humans and they would have no actually understanding of what these rights are or any understanding of what protection it may or may not give them.

We are closely related to apes but how far do you take this?

Human rights for marsupials? 
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 Posted: 06:21 pm

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cynicalninja wrote: Well apes aren't humans and they would have no actually understanding of what these rights are or any understanding of what protection it may or may not give them.

We are closely related to apes but how far do you take this?

Human rights for marsupials?
I think you're on the right track here, Ninja.  To designate a species "the most like us", and decide to give them more rights than other animals, seems to be pretty arbitrary.  I don't think that apes should have any of the things done to them that the law is now going to forbid in Spain, but I think the reasoning is a little off.  To exercise any real rights, apes would have to be able to reliably communicate.  What if an ape wanted to do a commercial, because of some benefit (e.g., more bananas, a shot at a nice-looking female gorilla)?  For anyone capable of making the decision, there's a right to do something, as well as a right not to do it, if you they don't want to.




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 Posted: 06:34 pm

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I remember going to bat a bit for the apes last year on this very topic.  God will reward me for my kindness to our cousins.

http://www.24hourforums.com/view_topic.php?id=17038&forum_id=60




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 Posted: 06:37 pm

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This is the text from Brian's link in the first post.

Spain +1

-------------------------------------------


By Martin Roberts
MADRID (Reuters) - Spain's parliament voiced its support on Wednesday for the rights of great apes to life and freedom in what will apparently be the first time any national legislature has called for such rights for non-humans.

Parliament's environmental committee approved resolutions urging Spain to comply with the Great Apes Project, devised by scientists and philosophers who say our closest genetic relatives deserve rights hitherto limited to humans.

"This is a historic day in the struggle for animal rights and in defense of our evolutionary comrades, which will doubtless go down in the history of humanity," said Pedro Pozas, Spanish director of the Great Apes Project.

Spain may be better known abroad for bull-fighting than animal rights but the new measures are the latest move turning once-conservative Spain into a liberal trailblazer.

Spain did not legalize divorce until the 1980s, but Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero's Socialist government has legalized gay marriage, reduced the influence of the Catholic Church in education and set up an Equality Ministry.

The new resolutions have cross-party or majority support and are expected to become law and the government is now committed to update the statute book within a year to outlaw harmful experiments on apes in Spain.

"We have no knowledge of great apes being used in experiments in Spain, but there is currently no law preventing that from happening," Pozas said.

Keeping apes for circuses, television commercials or filming will also be forbidden and breaking the new laws will become an offence under Spain's penal code.

Keeping an estimated 315 apes in Spanish zoos will not be illegal, but supporters of the bill say conditions will need to improve drastically in 70 percent of establishments to comply with the new law.

Philosophers Peter Singer and Paola Cavalieri founded the Great Ape Project in 1993, arguing that "non-human hominids" like chimpanzees, gorillas, orang-utans and bonobos should enjoy the right to life, freedom and not to be tortured.

(Reporting by Martin Roberts; Editing by Richard Williams)




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