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24HourForums.com > Supported Forums > Brian's Science & Nature Shack > The great pyramids were built with water. |
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cladking Original500© Member temporal wanderer
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I hope I'm back for good. I'm still working on the pyramids and still finding that virtually all the physical, geological, historical, and cultural data are highly interrelated and support the existence of cold water geysers at Giza. It's pretty odd how little support or attention this is getting but if it's correct then it will stand on its own merits. One of the things which led me to be sure they had water right from the very beginning is the fact that near the center bottom of the pyramid is a chamber which has sand behind the walls. This sand is distinct from the sand in the adjoining desert. There is simply NO rational explanation for the existence of this sand other than that it was water-bourne and inadvertant. It's out of the realm of possibility to imagine that the builders of a pyramid in a desert would import sand from somewhere else. It simply must have been carried there by water. Siderite is a ferrous carbonate that is the principle binder in the sandstones which cap some of the aquifer basins south of Giza. This binder is highly soluble in carbonic acid which forms when carbon dioxide is dissolved in water. This might explain some of the physical and cultural evidence of the Giza Plateau. Principly it would provide the likeliest source for the foreign sand that has been found in the walls of the "queens chamber". Rushing water would carry away this binder as well as the ancient sand within the sandstone. Chemical analysis of the sand will most probably show this is the same as the sandstones with the binder removed. There are some lighter materials bound in the stone as well as heavier and coarser and this material would segregate as it passed through the aquifers and the pyramid. There is exceedingly little remaining from before 2400 BC. The best source for information is the Pyramid Texts but even the oldest copy of this was engraved in stone hundreds of years after the great pyramids were built. The pyramids at this time were small pale copies of the immensities built before the 6th dynasty. But these texts were obviously very ancient when they were copied. Some of these utterances go back to the very dawn of the written language and the historic era in 3200 BC. You can look these up at [http://www.sacred-texts.com]. #244 breaking of two red jars. #510 N is the red bandage come from the "gas". #468 equipped with the red eye of Horus. great in spirit and protected Horus. #456 greetings soul who is in the red blood #246 red-eyed Horus #249 N is gaurdian of laundry in the night of the great flood. #250 feast of the red clothes. It would hardly be surprising that Egyptian red sandstone might decompose to turn the water red as well as their laundry. The sandstone binder builds a scale on it which would stop its dissolution at some point but if the carbonated water had a great deal of surface area exposed to the stone or if it were against it long enough it takes little imagination to picture it becoming quite red. This would arise from the ground at the beginning of the season and last only briefly. It would be a natural time to have feasts since it marks the beginning of a new year and a period of enforced inactivity for many people. It would be the time between the years when Osiris (Lord of Caverns) was born and the valley was going under water.
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24HourNut Administrator  aka Frank
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I've been following your research on pyramids and find it fascinating. That would be amazing if you've really hit the nail on the head with the water theory. Thanks for posting it.
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cladking Original500© Member temporal wanderer
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24HourNut wrote: I've been following your research on pyramids and find it fascinating. That would be amazing if you've really hit the nail on the head with the water theory. Thanks for posting it. Really I'm mostly just a tool here. A lifetime of hard work gave my gut the ability to know the possible from the impossible. My gut merely directed me to google which has done all the work. One of the more interesting thing google has turned up recently is that there is a natural cavern under the Great Pyramid full of fresh water. This was remains crystal clear so there has to be a flow in and out of it. As intersting as this is what's more interesting is that above this cavern is a man made passage and there is water erosion between the two! There is no doubt that water has welled up under Giza since man arived on the plateau!!! This is consistent with no other theories about the pyramid and is entirely consistent with the existence of geysers. Even Herotus said that the Egyptians were in the habit of digging for water to save the effort of building canals. Everyone just writes off everything Herodotus and the Ancient Egyptians said as mere hyperbole and poetry. In point of fact the Pyramid Texts appear to literally explain the entire process but they have been interpreted figuratively instead. Much of this is caused by the fact that the religion just continued to evolve when their Gods died. The gods are better known in later times because so much more survives. It simply wasn't recognized that it was wrong to just project the later culture back to earlier times. With no referants and very little data it was easy to draw the wrong conclusions. There's actually an utterance which I call "the clockwork pyramid" which describes the action of building in some detail. ...I think it's Djoser's pyramid though.
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cladking Original500© Member temporal wanderer
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Well it would help to explain why it's been a mystery for more than 4500 years. Who'd look around in the desert today and think that the ancients must have had access to large amounts of water under pressure right up on the Giza Plateau? But the signs that water played the crucial role are everywhere in historical, physical, cultural, and geological data. The pyramid itself screams that the indented sides and groove down the middle (http://www.catchpenny.org/concave.html) were for the purpose of containing counterweights and lifters. The salt in the queen's chamber wouldn't have been able to collect without water transporting it. Perhaps the most telling of all the facts associated with the pyramid is the fact that there is foreign sand in the walls. It is simply inconceivable that people building a pyramid in a desert would import sand from the outside. It's wholly impossible for it to have blown in so the only rational explanation is that it was water-bourne. The fact that they'd spend such huge effort to build the causeways implies that these had some integral function to the usage, construction, or operation of the pyramids. Why spend a third of the effort on a massive project to build a walkway to it? Isn't it exceedingly coincidental that deep passages lead down from its lenght and that natural caverns are included in several parts of the passages withing the pyramid? Look at the huge retaining walls around all these structures. It makes little sense to erect huge walls of mud brick to protect a dead king and his treasure. Anyone who can get into the pyramid will hardly be impeded by these walls. Certainly the arguments against ramps are powerful and well known. Their proximity to the pyramid also ensures that stone would need to be hauled large distances in the opposite direction before being dragged up the ramp. There are simply a dearth of options for means of building these with primitive technology. Their technology might have been exceedingly primitive and didn't even include the wheel but these people were as intelligent as anyone today. Indeed, it takes more intelligence to accomplish tasks without modern technology. So, without evidence of higher technology, we are left with precious few means that it might be done. And it was not only done here but at other sites worldwide. If water were available at the top of the pyramid it would make this task quite simple and straightforward. The cultural evidence even provides numerous clues why this hasn't been previously discovered. With water they could fill large boat shaped containers at the top connected to sleds full of stones on the opposite side with rope. As the boat got sufficiently heavy it would simply fall down the side and lift up the stones. There is extensive substantiation of this in the Pyramid Texts if they are extrapolated back to the times when they were originally written before and as the pyramids were being built. There are even utterances which appear to describe this operation in some detail. If this corpus is taken literally it simply comes alive and tells a great deal about their Gods and the way they worshipped and believed. These people were not so primitive as they are usually portrayed. They may have been a little superstitious and unsophisticated but with the limitation of their knowledge, they really were quite modern in most important regards. So, the obvious question is what was the source of this water pressure. This is part of the reason that it wasn't discovered till now; much of the needed information was a Soviet military secret. First is the fact that there is a series of underground aquifers going all the way to the Nile headwaters. Second is that there was once the largest canyon on Earth extending to Aswan. This canyon was cut when the Mediterranean was cut off from the oceans and its level dropped. This meant the Nile had to fall into it and this falling cut the canyon. When the level rerose the canyon became a fiord which gradually filled in. Caves form right under the water table so this action of the Nile resulted in the "Land of Horus" (area where pyramids were built) becoming heavily crisscrossed with caves and caverns. This wouldn't have mattered and there would be no pyramids there today except for a couple more little quirks of narture. The undergrond aquifers transport huge amounts of water right underneath Giza. This flow still exists today as evidenced by a clear water cavern about 80' under the surface in which people often swim. Far away in the Congo there is a carbonated lake named Lake Kivu. It is one of only three carbonated lakes in the entire world. Perhaps not coincidentally all three are in Africa. As recently as 18,000 years ago this lake was part of the headwaters of the Nile. The longest river in the world was several hundred miles longer in those days. But vulcanic mountains rose to the north and this region was cut off. The water rose until it found a new path to the sea. The river parallels the Great African Rift which is the fastest growing rift on the planet. Someday it will be the site of all the new crust on the planet. Whether this rift is related to the series of basins or not is an imponderable probably but it takes little imagination to think that these mountains tipped the aquifer as they rose and carbonated them as well. If this carbon dioxide remained in solution all the way to Giza where they first intersected the cave network it would quite possibly result in cold water geysers and, I believe, this is the source of their water to build the pyramids. Early man would be attracted primarily to sources of good water. Where better and what better water than Giza where the pyramid texts refer to "water like wine" and say their Gods are "effervescent". This water might sometimes have significant amounts of hydrogen sulphide which smells like rotten eggs dissolved in it as well. Today at Lake Kivu children inadvertantly wander into pockets of CO2 and are killed. The hydrogen sulphide is not always present with the CO2. This is probably related to the Pyramid Texts which says that the Gods all had "evil comings" and that Isis herself stank badly (evil smelling) sometimes. I've been studying this for a couple years now and can provide lots of details if anyone is interested. There is also historical evidence which suggests this was the means. The mysteries and explanations for why this hasn't been previously discovered holds together as well. Cold water geysers are rarely a natural phenomenon. These are generally drilled by man and often intentionally. These result from high concentrations of CO2 in the water. What happens is if this carbonated water is close enough to the surface the top of the water can start bubbling up because there is excessive carbonation. As it moves up it releases pressure on the lower water which allows it to fizz up as well. This is a cascade event and can move tremendous amounts of water high in the air. These are known to shoot to 180' and run nearly continuously. But when man first came to Giza this is not what he saw. The region to the west was wet grasslands and to the south it was lush and rich in animal and plant life. This area recieved much of its water from below as it percolated up from the aquifers. In some places it would have a significant flow. At many of the vents there would have been cone shaped stones through which water rose from the center. These cones were like stalagmites in caves and were the result of dissolved minerals coming out of solution as the CO2 dissipated. CO2 in water forms carbonic acid and in the many miles it traveled underground there was ample time for it to become saturated with the constituent parts of limestone. It also passed through lots of sandstone but more on this later. When this water spurted out it would form these structures. Remember that Thot "created himself". This is more of the imagery in their religion which is certainly rich in it. These vents became the benben stones when they were later removed for drilling the opening and were moved to the temples in the cities. Note that the Egyptian said the benben stones fell from the sky. Of course they did; still dissolved in water. Heliopolis and Memphis were quite possibly built around their own water supplies. (especially Memphis) There are utterances which refer to building a ladder (pyramid) on a promordial mound (or earth that mounts to the sky). It was the drilling of these vents which created the geysers. The natural tendency for people would have been to remove debris and dig down at these sites to try to maximize water flow for irrigation and other human needs. Necessity is the mother of invention and this is why highly primitive people developed the drill even before the invention of the written language! This fact alone screams that they had some sort of hydraulic need for drills since pottery simply isn't that important. What other need would they have for drills in 3200 BC? Again there is some support for this concept in the Pyramid Texts if they are taken literally. It is relatively minor and refers to "claws". Once they had water it was natural to contain it to use it more judiciously and make it last longer. They'd have to pave much of the area with stone to prevent its finding its way into a natural cavern with which the area was littered. These paving stones were so tight that there was no leakage into most of the boat pits that surround most of the pyramids. However a few of these must have had pinhole leaks and the boats in these are totally rotted away or in deplorable condition. Walls went up since most of these were drilled on higher ground to feed larger areas. These walls retained huge amounts of water which would still be lightly carbonated and broiling in the desert sun. Algae would grow wild so fish which could tolerate high CO2 levels were introduced. These fish kept the water fresh and provided addition fertilizer for the sandy soil at the end of the season. These fish were almost certainly the same species which were against the religion to eat because they were said to have eaten the phalus of Osiris. It was no real loss to the economy since they were needed for this job anyway. Oftentimes the "eye" of the geyser would be at a lower level then the water being retained by the walls. This would serve to smother the geyser. To rectify this a sycamore tree would be hollowed out and inverted over the opening. When the geyser blew it would empty the sycamore and allow the geyser to spray right up through the tree. I'm told that Egyptian sycamore grows hollow so wouldn't even need this much work. It was quickly found that a throttle could be devised at the top which inserted and retracted small teeth. Osiris (the geyser) stood in this djed pillar! This djed (and throttle) would make Osiris more stable and enduring which is exactly what "djed" means in Egyptian. The djed was his sandals and the four strings were operated with a wAs sceptor. The Pyramid Texts clearly describes this operation. It also clearly describes the act of throwing natron (a salt) into the geyser to induce Osiris to stand. This is like putting salt in a soft drink; it fizzes violently. I'll edit this to add a little 3 minute video of a djed pillar in operation today. It is on Crystal Geyser in Utah and is half way through. Look at it closely a few times and you can see how it works. I intend to do this in chronological order and we're up to about 2800 BC now. There are a few more points to touch upon before getting to pyramid building proper. The first is one that I've begun looking at only very recently; a likely source for the foreign sand in the Great Pyramid. This was found back in the 1970's if memory serves when some small holes were drilled into the walls of the queens chamber. There is information available on the web of the composition or ultimate disposition of this material. The only clue I've seen is that it's smaller than the desert sand in the area there and chemically distinct. Of course it's ludicrous to suppose that the builders might import sand to a desert. Surely if it were present in the mortar this information would be available. There's really on one way that is believable for how it got here; it came in with the water. There's an old legend that Hathor went on a killing spree at Atum's behest and couldn't be contained until beer was made that was red and she drank sufficiently to no longer care about murder. Hathor is the Goddess of lust and appears to be based on the oldest human traditions concerning divinity. I'm outside my area here but Hathor also seems to be the basis of many later God(s). There was also a feast of the red clothes and a reference in the Pyramid Texts to a red bandage associated with yeast gas and the Eye of Horus. Yeast gas was a spirit of some Gods but never the sole spirit. It is primarily the references to red which interest me here. The aquifers were overlain with sandstone along much of its route and at least some of this sandstone (Silsla) was of a type which is bound with iron compounds. It's entirely possible that the water at Giza might sometimes contain huge amounts of iron from the action of the carbonic acid. The Pyramid Texts suggest that there were laundries at Giza and this could most definitely account for the origin of the Feast of Red Clothes. But additionally it would bring significant amounts of ancient sand freed from the stone and some of it would actually be shot skyward. The flow of this sand was probably far more consistent than the flow of the iron which would be highly episodic. Also there's the Palermo Stone. This is a later reproduction of a stone that appeared must have been accurate and extremely ancient. The original may have been the oldest surviving writing at the time it was copied nearly 4000 years ago. This stone tells the king and important events for each year starting around 3200 BC apparently. A great deal is lost or unreadable and surprisingly it seems to provide few clues about even the names of the kings. There is simply almost no hard information on anything before 2500 BC. What exists is good study of small fragments from myriad sources. But the real fact is that no matter how much scholarship is applied that there is simply almost no information. Papyrus didn't survive and most of what's left is religious in nature. The Palermo Stone does however, name each year. It is named in a measurement that varies from about half an inch to twelve feet. This was obviously a very critical number to the ancients to take precedence over every other thing that transpired. The meaning of the number has puzzled people for many years. I believe this was the height of the water in the lake at Giza at the beginning of the season. The Pyramid Texts say the king's year is "calculated for him". This number came from an existing point at the outlet. If the lake dried up too early the crops in the land of Horus would get a late start since the geysers didn't start till early July. It wouldn't be catastrophic since there would still be fruit trees and a few crops which required less water but the season's third crop would be reduced, perhaps severely. Since this was the summer crop it was one of the highest yields per acre. There are two places to look for details of how the the Great Pyramid was built; legend and in the physical evidence. The Egyptians were exceedingly proud of this work and left numerous clues in the legends which have survived in good condition. The physical evidence is also there but is degraded and changed. There are a few clues from history but all historical sources have to be considered very critically. When thinking about the legends remember that the legend is Greek not Egyptian so it also has to be looked at with a somewhat jaundiced eye. The Egyptians wrote almost the entire legend of Osiris but it wasn’t necessarily intended to be taken in its entirety. The Greeks put it together and connected its parts to make a whole. Osiris’ ben ben stone was likely removed around 3500 BC and taken to the encircled mansion in Memphis only a few miles to the south. It was at this time that the opening where the ben ben had been was drilled and a geyser resulted. Osiris was Geb’s (the Earth’s) first born. He was First of the Westerners. His mother was Nut (the sky) and he stood when the sky was ripped from the Earth. He stood a few feet north of where the Great Pyramid would be built. Isis was his sister. There was a poorly defined ben ben here which is what made her female rather than male. This area is a little higher so would have less water pressure on average and probably a little lower mineral content. Being higher the run off would be faster leaving less time for precipitation of the minerals arond the opening as the CO2 left the water. The first step would be to build the retaining walls (these could even preexist). When Osiris’ Eye of Horus went under the water it would be necessary to hollow out a sycamore tree and invert it over the eye. This would allow him to stand even under water (see video above). A series of locks would be built down to flood level of the Nile. This would allow stone to be floated right up to the work site. A ramp would be made from the quarry leading directly up over the water being retained. This would be a very gradual ramp and easily negotiated. The first several layers of the structure were emplaced in this manner as more structure was built at the north side adjacent to the geyser. By this time the ramp was getting up to a few degrees and was difficult to drag stones so the “M[][]t-boats” were prepared. With the pyramid only a couple dozen feet tall these didn’t have far to move. The water would be divided into six channels on the top; most would go to the primary lifter on the center of the north side. This rode in the groove in the center of the bifurcation. It was a very simple device with a large tree trunk for a runner in the center and two much smaller runners alongside. It was designed so that the weight rode on the center runner and it held water. It was probably fairly simple and just structure surrounded by tarred reeds. Water is quite heavy so it just doesn’t take a lot to do a lot of lifting. There would be two smaller lifters midway between the center and the outside corners of the pyramids. These secondary lifters were to pull stone up out of the quarry and up to the base of the structure. The western one ran on a wooden track and was more carefully maintained and operated. because it was used to lift the workers up to the top when it wasn’t being used for other purposes. The primary had a capacity of about 20 tons and usually operated a little below this. The secondaries were each about ten tons. One of the utterances is a blessing for a new ascender being brought to the “bridge girderers of the desert”. I've been distracted by looking into the sand in the queens chamber and trying to find the chemical composition of this and that of the sand in the Egyptian red sandstone that is found near Elephantine. There are numerous apparent references in the Pyramid Texts to there being red water flowing from these early in the season. It seems quite possible that this is the result of the carbonated water lying in the aquifers and dissolving the red sandstone caps. There's quite a bit in the texts but I'll try to keep this information out of this thread. The sand found in the queen's chamber is said to be between 100 and 400 microns in size which is a relatively small fraction. It is also mostly quartz of rounded and mostly rounded shape. This is totally different sand than is found in the surrounding desert. It has a different make-up and size fraction. It is very improbable that this sand could have gotten here other than by natural means or being hauled in by the builders. It is my contention that it's a virtual certainty that the builders did not import sand to a desert so the only reasonable hypothesis is that it came in with moving water (high in the pyramid). There's another problem with starting a thread on how it was built; I'm not very sure. There are many things in which I have good confidence but there are a great many detail in which my confidence is poor. It was apparently cladded from the top down. There are two main water sources and it's likely that one failed during construction. Osiris stood in a natural fissure just to the north of the entrance and about 40' east. There was structure above this area which contained an upper Eye of Horus. Petrie remarked that it appeared that there had been more structure in this area because of the way the stones were laid in the vicinity of the entrance. This was essentially a platform with a hole in it and a deflector to keep the water from falling back down or creating back pressure on the water coming up. This water would be treated with some sort of heavy grease with a high natron content. This was to cause as much CO2 as possible to off gas. During the construction seasion the wind was from the north so these were typically on the north side to assure the gas would blow off toward the south and east and be dispersed where relatively few men were. Under normal conditions this would be no threat. It was only when the wind slowed and the CO2 could build up in low lying areas in or around the pyramid that there was extreme danger. This geyser was extremely stable but there would be an operator on the djed at the base of the pyramid. Teeth at the top could be used as a throttle to fine tune the height and it could be moved in each direction to hit the eye above. Any explosive changes in pressure would be vented around the djed but there was always some danger that the geyser might hit the structure causing a collapse or "swallowing of the Eye of Horus". At the top the water would be divided into different channels for different usages which probably gave rise to using this eye as the standard symbol for fractions later in their history. It's still used by pharmacists. Half would normally go straight to the distribution node through the nurse (mn) canal which was also "greased" with natron. This node is known to us as the queens chamber. This chamber rose as the pyramid rose. The bottom of these canals would have to be shoveled out periodically because of sand accumulation. Even when the geysers were active the sandstone would be dissolving but there wouldn't be enough siderite and similar oxides to color the water. It appears that many times Osiris could only rise on his side. This must have plagued them frequently between about the 6th and 12th year of construction. It appears that the ascending passage may well have been intended to raise water with large shaddufs while this area was still exposed. The girdle stones may have been large dams to hold the water at progressively higher altitudes and to get it to the queens chamber.
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cynicalninja Forum-Blogger© Original500© Member  Smiling Shinobi
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Very interesting stuff. So you don't give any credence to the Alien architect theory? Attachment: (Downloaded times)
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cladking Original500© Member temporal wanderer
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Several of the pyramids have apparently been used as a source for building materials and dismantled. Of course, the Great Pyramid itself lost nearly 10% of its volume when it was stripped of its cladding by (or after) an earthquake in the 12th century left the city at a great need for building material. I make a lot of jokes about the alien theories but I really prefer some of them to some of the ramp theories. Egyptology seems to be married to ramps and the simple fact is that a single straight on ramp is an impossibility and flies in the face of all the evidence. The causeway which is likely a major source for supplies is on an adjacent side to the side with the ramp so material would have to be shuttled over to it. Since the causeway was nearly as large a project as the pyramid one would expect it would be in the right place. More importantly is that the ramp would require ten times the effort of the pyramid and the main quarry is so close that the stones would have to be dragged AWAY from the pyramid before they could be laboriously dragged up the ramp in the desert sun in the middle of summer. It really is easier for me to believe aliens built it. ;) I'm hoping I'm making some progress on this but it may be a mirage.
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