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| Moderated by: Brian | Page:   1 2 |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member  Without Jesus we fall short...
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24HourNut wrote: Whoops, I read Cladking's post as yours, JBF. You did that they we are out of control today in regard to some things so I took you as saying we are worse today than back then. I was commenting on how bad back then was for so many. I notice no one is saying they wish they could be teleported and magically be born to live back then instead of now with the "more in control" people. No problem. It may have been a genetic malfunction. 
 Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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JustifiedByFaith Pioneer100© Member Without Jesus we fall short...
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Frank, If you notice in the picture the banana peel? This is proof I am still evolving.  Attachment: (Downloaded times)
Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you." Matthew 24:4 |
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Friend Original500© Member  Peaceful In The Morning
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Last edited on 04:23 pm by Friend |
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moguitar Guest
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Since humans got more civilized, then kinder and gentler with Christianity, then inventions of war that had no selectivity, and armies of the select best dying instead of the dumbest and weakest---there has actually been a negative evolution. The lowest spectrum of intelligence is outbreeding the highest by 12 to one, and the Earth itself is 8 times sustainable in numbers over a long term, and the term is just about up. Humans have the brains, in some cases, to mimic the evolution in God's Laws of Nature, but not the power to do so. Didn't have the brains or morals to see the consequences 7 generations ahead, of stuff like coal and oil, or reduction in infant mortality. Over-compassion and greed have ruled. Overpopulation, depletion, and pollution to ecological collapse and extinction is where the human species is heading. I had hoped for a long time that a speciation event would occur, seeing that there is much more variation especially in intelligence within the species, than there is between humans and chimpanzees.
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation 
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moguitar wrote: Since humans got more civilized, then kinder and gentler with Christianity, then inventions of war that had no selectivity, and armies of the select best dying instead of the dumbest and weakest---there has actually been a negative evolution. The lowest spectrum of intelligence is outbreeding the highest by 12 to one, and the Earth itself is 8 times sustainable in numbers over a long term, and the term is just about up. I don't think it's true that wars necessarily kill off the best and brightest. Certainly, those who fight for their countries have some very noble qualities, and I wouldn't discount their intelligence, but a lot of the time, the people who develop the systems/tactics to do the fighting don't do the actual fighting itself. These people don't get selected out, necessarily. Also, it should be noted that reproduction rate doesn't necessarily have anything to do with viability. You can reproduce like bacteria, but if you lack the traits that lead to survivability, you're screwed. Conversely, you could have a very low rate of reproduction, but if you've got the right traits, you survive. Intelligence, as such, doesn't have as much to do with human evolution as it does in other species. Humans are (probably) unique in that they can pass on information to future generations and build upon that information through written and oral records. A human being never necessarily has to rely only on their own intellect to survive. (Otherwise, there'd be a hell of a lot less people around). Human beings are also able to change their environment in ways other animals cannot (both positively and negatively). 30 years ago, it was predicted that we wouldn't survive until 2000 because of nuclear proliferation or overpopulation. But human beings have a way of pulling themselves back from the brink. Technology has allowed greater food production, and so far, we've managed nto to do something so stupid as blowing ourselves up. That's not to say that we'll wipe out starvation in our lifetime. Some countries simply lack the resources or distribution infrastructure (either technically or because of political problems) to feed their population. But some human beings in some countries will survive. Even if global warming does its worst, some humans will survive. The human race has been through warmings and coolings before. The only difference this time is we have an egotistical sense of our own importance and power in the process. The kinds of things that really threaten the human species are things like an asteroid collision. If something like that happens before we've found another planet to seed, the human species is fucked.
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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moguitar Guest
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If global warming does its worst, it will be as hot as 55 million years ago and just as few species. 40 years ago my prediction was 6 billion at the turn of the century and crash of less than 9 billion at mid-century which coincided with world oil depletion only incidentally. Global warming was an unknown. As a geologist(doing bio-ecology) I didn't think anything would stop the return to the glacial period. Humans and other living organism for the most part have not been through a rapid warming phase such as now. Although an asteroid collision is a threat, the ELE cycle isn't due for 13 million years from asteroid or cometary impact. This ELE is all caused by humans, and in between (Nemesis 26 million year cycle of possible ELE size comet/asteroid impact period). Intelligence played a great part in human evolution, and with tribal warfare the strongest and smartest warriors would return to mate with the best women of their pick, and women would pick the best hunter/warriors. There were always new places to go and if others were there, it would be war. Harsh times favored the wise and strong, too. Infant mortality was high, and defectives were given to other predators. Humans had more than themselves for predators. There were a lot of large carnivores, and diseases. The actual case right now with unstoppable methane release is a feedback loop of more warming and more methane release, finally down into the ocean after a lag(ocean surface temps up more than 1* now), where the biggest deposits are at varying depths. Right now the global temperature rise is actually 4*F, oceans up 7" and the process is accelerating 19% more, so far, than Al Gore's movie. Population rise tapers off with increasing death rates and decreasing birth rates. The climate fluctuation wipes out crops one out of three years while the soil averages only 2" deep or so at mid-century. Well before mid-century most of the groundwater is gone, and most people just don't have enough. Economic depression hits well before all of that, and wars increase. The pollution levels are very high, and will take 50,000 years for much to be absorbed, and several hundred thousand years for the rest. Soils will not be able to build back at the former rates, and the same with many aquifers. The planet will be unlivable for humans and most species for many thousands of years. If somehow human GHG emissions totally stopped the temperatures would still go up one degree from CO2 and ocean temperature would still go up enough to release clathrates and methane hydrate deposits at up to over 300' deep. It was once thought that global warming would peak with oil depletion and go down, resulting in a 500 year delay of the glacial epoch. That was without the wild card of methane release dealt. Just running out of water can cause mass death. Just running out of soil to grow crops can cause mass death. Just heavy metal pollution can cause mass death. The temperature rise and running out of oil are just extra bullets to make sure humans are all dead. The Star Trek fantasy of galactic "seeding" will not be. Hopes of the late 60s and 70s, when there really was time to change human behavior, have been dashed by the reality of politics, religious fundamentalism, and plain old human greed and stupidity. The dumb overbreeders take out the smart sustainable living people with them. No planet of the apes, just a polluted, relatively barren biosphere. The water may be plentiful under Bush's Paraguayan ranch. Underground stocked bunkers, will dried food last thousands of years?
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Brian Grand Poobah of Moderation
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moguitar wrote: If global warming does its worst, it will be as hot as 55 million years ago and just as few species. 40 years ago my prediction was 6 billion at the turn of the century and crash of less than 9 billion at mid-century which coincided with world oil depletion only incidentally. Global warming was an unknown. As a geologist(doing bio-ecology) I didn't think anything would stop the return to the glacial period. Humans and other living organism for the most part have not been through a rapid warming phase such as now. Although an asteroid collision is a threat, the ELE cycle isn't due for 13 million years from asteroid or cometary impact. This ELE is all caused by humans, and in between (Nemesis 26 million year cycle of possible ELE size comet/asteroid impact period).
"It's been a long December, and there's reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last." -- "A Long December", Counting Crows |
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moguitar Guest
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1) A really big ship, and so expensive the 9 trillion in debt US and the rest of the world helping could not get it done in time (2050). The space station isn't even done. 2) Fuel for said ship. That would be the major load with the necessity of a 2G burn for 1/2 year, to 1/2 light speed, then another one when they arrived, with reserve. The nearest "possible" Earthlike planet 12 light years away would be a 25 year trip. Think of the Apollo rockets times several million in size. 3) Supplies for the trip. Besides the fuel, there would have to be more than enough breeding couples to prevent genetic erosion when they get there, and the crew for the trip who would be too old by the time they got there. All the air they breath, energy they use, water, and food they eat, and recycling systems and maintenance items would have to be on board with allowance for possible problems. 4) Someplace to go. The possibility of the planetary system that might have an earthlike planet is all the hope they'll have. If they don't hit a rock, and get there to find no livable planet, then they are shit out of luck. They die, even if they had fuel to come back to a destroyed Earth. If they had fuel for an alternate, and supplies for a multi-generational voyage, they may or may not find a livable planet at the next closest probable solar system. What if they find one, and it is occupied with hostile beings? Or diseases to humans with no cure? The speed requires fuel and time. How many Gs for how long can a human take? The slower and more time, the more supplies needed. Once far away from any sun, any energy would have to be on board. Solar panels won't work and plants won't grow without grow lights. Remember the speed of light can't even be reached, and there is no anti-gravity or "worm hole" that humans can go through and live. As far as most people not being smart enough to live, you are right. Some cultures, living on mono-diets, became weaker mentally and/or physically. Pioneers generally could do it all, and there was cooperative effort. The pioneer spirit is needed. Multi-disciplinary knowledge and skills are necessary, in a world of dependence and specialization, and the dumbing down of educational systems and society. Last edited on 06:00 pm by |
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CarlWohlforth Original500© Member 
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There are other ways of channing genetics outside of mutations. There has always been selective breeding. But now we are learning about stem cells. Humans have just started adapting! 
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